• If you need help identifying a pepper, disease, or plant issue, please post in Identification.

chinense Bhut Jolokia, Naga Morich, and Dorset Naga...Oh my!

Are these all the same pepper, or are there varietal differences?

I've been told that they are all the same, that the Bhut Jolokia and the Naga Morish are the same pepper, but the Dorset Naga is a different variety, and that all three are different varieties.

So, I'm askin'
 
Sort answer; Yes, they are all the same.

Longer(but still short) more problem filled answer; yes and no, untill DNA testing is done, we do not know for sure....PERIOD.
 
does anyone know if DNA testing is being undertaken by any organisation? NMSU? or is it that no-one wants to find out for sure for commercial reasons?
 
chilliman64 said:
does anyone know if DNA testing is being undertaken by any organisation? NMSU? or is it that no-one wants to find out for sure for commercial reasons?

Its too expensive.... And really, there all freakin hot anyways :P:rolleyes:
 
We know the dorset was selctively chosen from growing regular Nagas. All this started exactly a year ago today, April 1.
 
I think the Bih Jolokia & Bhut Jolokia are the exact same (poison pepper & ghost pepper) - The Naga is very similar but comes another part of central Asia. Rainfall,temperature & humidity play a large part in the scoville rating of the pods, so a few hundred miles & a mountain range will change things a lot even though the plant appears the same.

This is not gospel...just what I've read so far.
 
Flex said:
Its too expensive.... And really, there all freakin hot anyways :P:rolleyes:

Well, yeah, but if one is going to pontificate on peppers - not that I would ever pontificate or nothin'- one would want to have the correct information, wouldn't one?
 
imaguitargod said:
Sort answer; Yes, they are all the same.

Longer(but still short) more problem filled answer; yes and no, untill DNA testing is done, we do not know for sure....PERIOD.

Ok, that would certainly explain the confusing answers.

Now I'm wondering if we have DNA technology that can differentiate between plants that are closely related.
 
bentalphanerd said:
yes DNA will differentiate any genetic difference in anything, down to the protein of the chromosome.

I don't think it's that simple, though. I know that just recently a test came on the market that can determine the breeds in a mixed breed dog, but only if the dog is a mix of the 35 or so breeds in the company's data base. If I'm not mistaken, and it's very possible I am on this subject, they're only able to do this because they DNA'd enough individuals in each of those breeds to have a template for each breed to compare DNA samples against. (And I should issue a gross over-simplification warning here.)

So, to be able to differentiate between varieties in _C chinense_, there would have to first be a fairly hefty data base of those varieties that identifies where, genetically, the differentiation occurs. I have no idea if any work has been done on genetic markers in peppers.

The test for dogs was developed by a for-profit company, they also do paternity and "genetic pawprints" for dogs. I can't see even the wild obsession of chileheads being enough to produce much of a profit, though, which is why I'm wondering if there is a DNA test right now that would tell us the difference.

I stand ready to be corrected, though.
 
Good point.

O.k - I'm going to look up the ratio of how many chromosomes in a DNA strand and then how many proteins in that chromosome...I thought that DNA testing could discern down to a generation and therefore prove lineage. But that would make it determinable only if you already had the parent on file..i.e. through comparison.

now where's that Google thing
 
They are most certainly different strains of naga/bhin out there.
Genetic mutations occur naturally. Over time these mutations stabilize.
The Tezpur/Naga region is large and isolated. And these type of peppers have been grown for a long time in India.
I'm sure if you go to India and search you would find multiple type of Naga/Bhin.
Are the Bhin and the Naga available to us the same? No way to tell since the seed vendors are only interested in $$$$ and will sell you the same seeds in under different packages.
No doubt in a few months/years we will see more Naga/Bhin unique type of peppers coming from India.

With all the amateur chiliheads, in 3-4 years we are going to have jalapenos that are close to 1 000 000 scoville.
 
POTAWIE said:
They've already found traces of frutescens in the Naga so they have the technology.


That's on the species level, though. Within a species it gets a little more difficult. To go back to the dog example, it would by much easier to tell if your dog was a wolf/huskey hybrid than whether your dog was a lab/pointer mix or a lab/walker hound mix.
 
habman said:
They are most certainly different strains of naga/bhin out there.
Genetic mutations occur naturally. Over time these mutations stabilize.
The Tezpur/Naga region is large and isolated. And these type of peppers have been grown for a long time in India.
I'm sure if you go to India and search you would find multiple type of Naga/Bhin.

Sure. Absolutely. You can find that in chilies available on the market right now. The one that comes readily to mind is the Trinidad Seasoning pepper plants sold by Cross Country and The Chile Woman. The one from Cross Country is a meatier pepper with a solid fruity taste and so heat-less you could almost call it a sweet pepper.. The one from the Chile Woman is thin fleshed and has a uniformly mildly spicy flavor.

Are the Bhin and the Naga available to us the same? No way to tell since the seed vendors are only interested in $$$$ and will sell you the same seeds in under different packages.
No doubt in a few months/years we will see more Naga/Bhin unique type of peppers coming from India.

That was kinda what I was asking. And as Flex pointed out, they're all freaking hot, so it's doesn't really matter except to the pontificating pepper pedant.


With all the amateur chiliheads, in 3-4 years we are going to have jalapenos that are close to 1 000 000 scoville.

Well, now, there's something else y'all might answer for me. What is the hottest jalapeño? I've a friend who's a better cook than she is a gardener, and I'm a better gardener than cook, so we make a pretty good team. She keeps complaining that she wants hotter jalapeños, though. Not hotter peppers, because I have plenty of those, she likes using jalapeños for some dishes, but she wants them hotter. I think jalapeños are boring, though, and I don't want to devote enough space to experiment with different varieties.
 
Yes, the original plant for both (all) is probably the same, but variations have grown through distance of seed and the humidity alone changes the scoville rating so therefore the DNA. After a few generations it has transformed. The question becomes - how many generations of deformity makes it another plant?
 
bentalphanerd said:
Yes, the original plant for both (all) is probably the same, but variations have grown through distance of seed and the humidity alone changes the scoville rating so therefore the DNA. After a few generations it has transformed. The question becomes - how many generations of deformity makes it another plant?

Once the mutation becomes stabilized then it can be said to be a different plant.
For tomatoes it can take 4-10 generations. It all depends on what was the mutation and if it's a recessive gene or other complicated stuff that I have no clue.
 
>>>>Well, now, there's something else y'all might answer for me. What is the hottest jalapeño? I've a friend who's a better cook than she is a gardener, and I'm a better gardener than cook, so we make a pretty good team. She keeps complaining that she wants hotter jalapeños, though. Not hotter peppers, because I have plenty of those, she likes using jalapeños for some dishes, but she wants them hotter. I think jalapeños are boring, though, and I don't want to devote enough space to experiment with different varieties.
 
The ones I'm groing I got from a store.They call it a Hot Jalapeno.
The guy that made the cross between hab and jal he call's it Jalabanero.

Jalabanero

Yup he does a curtsy every minute.
 
Back
Top