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Not Naga Viper But Genuine Testing!


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#61 The Chile Farm

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Posted 14 January 2011 - 02:33 AM

So the "yellow mutation" of Bhuts is actually a common occurence?

I don't know as it is common... It happened from seed that was purchased from NMSU 2 seasons ago. Janie @ CCN had several customers who purchased plants from her write or call, claiming that what was supposed to be a red bhut was yellow. With all the Bhut traits. I grew 300 plants the same year and had seven show up in that crop. Since then I have run across a couple of others from that same season who had them show up. This past season, It happened again as I finished off the seed from the previous year. About the same percentage again. :cheers:
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#62 AlabamaJack

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Posted 14 January 2011 - 04:55 AM

This coming season will be my fourth season growing the Bhuts and I have grown a lot of them...probably in the neighborhood of 300+ plants in that time and sold maybe 400-500...no yellow pods at all...my original seedstock came from NMSU CPI and another source directly from the world record test plants. I only grow my other sources offspring now because they seem to produce healthier plants. In my opinion, if you get a yellow Bhut off a plant that is supposed to be red, some "outside" genetics have been introduced into the strain through cross pollination and now those plants are hybrids and as we all know, hybrids take a long time to stabilize...

my 2 cents...
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#63 The Chile Farm

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Posted 14 January 2011 - 12:39 PM

This coming season will be my fourth season growing the Bhuts and I have grown a lot of them...probably in the neighborhood of 300+ plants in that time and sold maybe 400-500...no yellow pods at all...my original seedstock came from NMSU CPI and another source directly from the world record test plants. I only grow my other sources offspring now because they seem to produce healthier plants. In my opinion, if you get a yellow Bhut off a plant that is supposed to be red, some "outside" genetics have been introduced into the strain through cross pollination and now those plants are hybrids and as we all know, hybrids take a long time to stabilize...

my 2 cents...

THAT is a very valuable 2 cents.... :cool: positive input to the discussion
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#64 Habanero500

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Posted 16 January 2011 - 01:32 AM

Okay everyone some new news. If you have cable TV and you get the Hallmark Channel Dave De Witt will be on Martha Stewart Talking about chiles on Monday January 17, 2011. If he gets the chance he will talk about Me and Marlin applying for the new record. And yes it is the Scorpion. Sorry if some of you thought it would be the Douglah. The Douglah does smell and taste hotter but Marlin says compounds called Terpines not Capsaicin can influence that. We did get the Douglah in 2 tests to score higher than the Bhut but not as consistent as the Scorpion. Now I don't know why but I still had some pods on plants at my house. Must have forgotten about them. Not really good looking Scorpions with nice tails. But still Scorpions. Dave De Witt had me Fed-Ex these to Martha on Thursday. So I never thought we would see the Scorpion on Martha Stewart but we might now!! Told all my friends that Martha might fall in Love with superhots and become my babe and I would never have to work again!!! LOL!!!! Maybe we see superhots on Letterman next!

#65 POTAWIE

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Posted 16 January 2011 - 06:00 AM

From what I've heard, Dr.Bosland has been growing out the Trinidad scorpions for several years now for proper testing but I'm curious to why its taken this long for any SHU results. I understand that they want to do things properly (unlike Viper test) but it must be over 5 years now. I'm very confident that the Trinidad scorpion- Butch T variety will end up as the hottest, and IMO the Guiness certificate should probably go to Cardi or just to the pepper itself and not to any specific grower or tester
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#66 cmpman1974

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Posted 16 January 2011 - 12:22 PM

Dave DeWitt stole all the glory from Bosland. A fight will soon break out. :) WWIII. Battle of the big famous pepper guns. Wild West style.

#67 TheChilliRat

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Posted 16 January 2011 - 01:19 PM

Dave DeWitt stole all the glory from Bosland. A fight will soon break out. :) WWIII. Battle of the big famous pepper guns. Wild West style.


I suppose it would have to be a chilli based fight, they both crack out the hottest they own and just fling them at each other, try and score an eye-shot?

#68 Habanero500

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Posted 16 January 2011 - 11:25 PM

Well it would be nice to give credit to a country but not CARDI. They were approached years ago about promoting the superhots and dragged their feet because of Political crap. You would not believe the political infighting at CARDI. As for Paul Bosland growing out Scorpions it has not been years. Maybe a year or two. He grew them this year and for some reason plants all pooped out in his greenhouse. And that can happen to any grower. I know this because I know someone on the Chile Pepper Institute Board. Besides NMSU was not in any hurry to dethrone the Bhut because it does bring in a lot of money to support the University and the Chile Pepper Institute. The "Holy Jolokia" Hot sauce created by CaJohn Hard was made primarily as a fundraiser for the Institute. If myself, Dave and Marlin do get recognized with a Trinidad Chile it will now become popular and give North American chile growers a new cash crop for the Spice and sauce industry. Also the country of Trinidad will now get the opportunities that India got and Trinidad's economy could use it! I know some of you would like to see Bosland get it or have it done a different way. But lets look at the bigger picture here and be glad that our favorite Trinidad chiles are finally going to get the recognition they deserve. And on a final note we did our testing the right way observing plants in the field and doing multiple tests on single pods and composite samples. And then using a Third party lab in Texas to validate results. So we did it the Bosland way. We did not have to test previous chiles against it because we had that data from Bosland. So I do feel better about this than the whole Naga Viper fiasco.

#69 midwestchilehead

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Posted 17 January 2011 - 01:30 AM

I began germinating my first Trinidad's yesterday. You mean I may have the world's hottest? Excellent.
Calvin's 2.0 powder, New Mexico chile seeds, other varieties and some superhots! Grow your own and taste the difference!
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#70 midwestchilehead

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Posted 17 January 2011 - 01:32 AM

I began germinating my first Trinidad's yesterday. You mean I may have the world's hottest? Excellent.
Calvin's 2.0 powder, New Mexico chile seeds, other varieties and some superhots! Grow your own and taste the difference!
http://www.midwestchileheads.com

#71 midwestchilehead

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Posted 17 January 2011 - 01:33 AM

I began germinating my first Trinidad's yesterday. You mean I may have the world's hottest? Excellent.
Calvin's 2.0 powder, New Mexico chile seeds, other varieties and some superhots! Grow your own and taste the difference!
http://www.midwestchileheads.com

#72 Sandgroper

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Posted 17 January 2011 - 02:43 AM

I began germinating my first Trinidad's yesterday. You mean I may have the world's hottest? Excellent.


Jeez you planted 3 lots of seeds???:rofl:

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#73 Sandgroper

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Posted 17 January 2011 - 02:46 AM

Told all my friends that Martha might fall in Love with superhots and become my babe and I would never have to work again!!! LOL!!!!



Thats all good if your into antiques.

"Those who beat their guns into ploughs will plough for those who dont"

"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
"If a man speaks in the middle of a forest and there is no woman around to hear him, is he still wrong?"


#74 Habanero500

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Posted 17 January 2011 - 04:00 AM

I have to add one more comment here because I see so much talk about how Bosland did all his chile testing in such a fair manner by taking average samples. Paul is a Horticulturalist and a damn good one. First of all he knew the prior Red Savina record was doctored. Because nobody since that record had ever gotten a Red Savina to test over even 300,000. So since there was no true baseline to go by Paul grew Orange Habs, Red Savina and Bhuts for comparison under same conditions. Paul knew the Bhut was hotter but had to show the true heat of a few others in order to give the Bhut test more credibility. Now we have a baseline and there is no need to repeat that. If Frank Garcia had done that kind of testing before than Paul only would have had to just test the Bhut Jolokia.

Now some of you think Paul took an average of Bhut samples. Paul was looking for the hottest Bhut samples. And it took a few seasons to nail that down. Why???Because the Bhut Jolokia averages between 300,000-700,000 on average. Ask any major Hot sauce maker that tests their mash, powder and dried pods. The Bhut Jolokia rarely goes over 700,000. But if fed right and stressed right it can get close to 1,000,000 or just go over it. Paul made a composite sample and tested in at just over 1,001,000. He then sent the other two parts out to two other labs. One came in at just over 800,000 and the other at over 900,000. The over 1,000,00 test was submitted to Guinness and accepted. Remember previous record was 577,000. So any one of the three tests could be used.

Now if we look at all of this we see a 10-20% differential in the testing results. Which is a pretty high margin and does not show consistency in the composite sample. Or all three labs have really different equipment and not the best methods of calibrating that equipment. We know Paul wanted things done right but he cannot control another lab.

So now lets look at our Testing of the Scorpion. First we did not just test the Scorpion. We tested Moruga Scorpion and Smaller types (3 seed sources), Douglah, 7 Pot Jonah, Brain, Cardi, Naga Morich, Chocolate Bhut, Yellow Bhut and 7 Pot Yellow. For curiosity we did variations of Devil's Tongue and Fatalii. All were grown in hot, dry southwest climate in pots and ground.
All samples were tested single pods and composite samples. All had multiple tests.

Now we had some 7 Pots and Douglah bounce over 1,000,000 but not consistently. But the Scorpions we tested consistently came over 1,000,000. The only times they fell under 1,000,000 was when we picked too close to a heavy watering or rain. Or when the ripened pod was degrading and getting rotten. Unlike the Bhut we don't have to grow these over time to find superhot pods. Bosland found out that Bhut Pods on lower part of plant were hottest. Well it did not matter where we picked on a Scorpion plant!!! We got them over 1,000,000 top or bottom!! If any of you want to talk to Marlin about Capsaicin extraction and testing I will be glad to put him in touch with you. Paul Bosland is probably the leading Pepper Horticulturist in America besides those Hybrid geeks at Monsanto. Marlin is the leading guy on Capsaicin science in America. So I think we did things right. And one more thing. The difference between our Scorpion tests and the lab in Texas we used for Third Party validation was not 10-20% difference. It was only about 4 percent. So I think we are pretty accurate about the Scorpion. We are now getting paperwork ready for Guinness. We think we might get it. But you never know because Politics and who you know can sometimes override science.

#75 Sandgroper

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Posted 17 January 2011 - 05:43 AM

All samples were tested single pods and composite samples. All had multiple tests.

We are now getting paperwork ready for Guinness. We think we might get it. But you never know because Politics and who you know can sometimes override science.



Well Oh how true. Sad but true. If you have done all that you say you have done, I hope that you get the Guinness World Record but for a great reaction you should submit it to the Indian Book of World Records as well. "Limca" That would really put the cat amongst the pidgeons.

Edited by Sandgroper, 17 January 2011 - 05:44 AM.

"Those who beat their guns into ploughs will plough for those who dont"

"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
"If a man speaks in the middle of a forest and there is no woman around to hear him, is he still wrong?"


#76 POTAWIE

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Posted 17 January 2011 - 05:52 AM

As for Paul Bosland growing out Scorpions it has not been years. Maybe a year or two.


I've read that he's been growing them since around 2006-2007, shortly after the bhut got the record. I also here every year that he's going to officially test them but like previously said there is no immediate reason for NMSU to de-thrown themselves. Personally I always thought Bosland was keeping an ace up his sleeve.
I also think the Butch T type scorpion is much hotter than most other scorpion types and other super-hots, so I sure hope they're being tested
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#77 Sandgroper

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Posted 17 January 2011 - 08:37 AM

I've read that he's been growing them since around 2006-2007, shortly after the bhut got the record. I also here every year that he's going to officially test them but like previously said there is no immediate reason for NMSU to de-thrown themselves. Personally I always thought Bosland was keeping an ace up his sleeve.
I also think the Butch T type scorpion is much hotter than most other scorpion types and other super-hots, so I sure hope they're being tested



Well unless Bosland is doing it , it wasnt on Jims list of what they have grown and tested.

"Those who beat their guns into ploughs will plough for those who dont"

"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
"If a man speaks in the middle of a forest and there is no woman around to hear him, is he still wrong?"


#78 SouthernYooper

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Posted 17 January 2011 - 10:26 AM

Very interesting stuff happening. I will have all of these varieties growing this year. Woohoo!
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#79 Avon Barksdale

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Posted 17 January 2011 - 12:31 PM

Surprisingly I actually get the Hallmark channel, I hadn't even heard of it until now. I will definitely be tuning in at 2:00. :cool:
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#80 Habanero500

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Posted 17 January 2011 - 02:50 PM

I've read that he's been growing them since around 2006-2007, shortly after the bhut got the record. I also here every year that he's going to officially test them but like previously said there is no immediate reason for NMSU to de-thrown themselves. Personally I always thought Bosland was keeping an ace up his sleeve.
I also think the Butch T type scorpion is much hotter than most other scorpion types and other super-hots, so I sure hope they're being tested


Butch brought over seeds of the smaller variety I believe some of you call the Butch T Scorpion. I never got my seeds from Butch or from someone whose source was Butch but it was our smaller variety of Scorpion that did test above 1,000,000 on a more consistent basis. However since I cannot prove original seed source was from Butch I only can give credit to Trinidad Scorpion. I saw Martha show and segment on peppers was small. However Scorpion got pointed out and mentioned. I was not mentioned except that Dave said some were grown in San Diego. Oh well I am just happy that a Trinidad Pepper finally got talked about!

Another comment on Bosland. Some think he is doing a lot of work with superhots. Most don't know that a lot of milder more popular New Mex varieties that are New Mexico's cash crop are not doing too well. They are losing flavor and growing poorly.It seems the future generation of these peppers is not well. This is far more a priority for research for Bosland and NMSU than the Hottest pepper. A lot of farmers are giving up chiles and growing Pecans now in New Mexico because of this. Did you know New Mexico is second only to Georgia in Pecan production now!!!




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