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PaulG 2012

greenhouse germination cloning topping pinching composting budding T12 shop light

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#21 PaulG

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Posted 25 January 2012 - 10:39 PM

Thanks so much for the feedback, everyone. I appreciate that you took the time to respond.

I do have one question - when it's said the seeds need temps of
whatever to germinate, is that soil temperature, or air temperature? :confused:

My neighbor is a computer geek, I'll hit him up for a used fan! Thanks for the suggestion.


Nice start Paul! Love the greenhouse.
+1 to SS, That fan will drop it to exactly where you need it to be I'm sure. That homemade germ tent you got there is pretty sweet.
Congrats on growing only edible peppers this year (non supers lol..) When october comes around and I can hardly sit down from eating supers all summer I'll be hittin you up for a trade lol.

Brandon


Hopefully I'll actually get some peppers! Be happy to trade :halo: if that's the case!


I'm really focusing more on dinner type peppers for the wife and I... :beer:


"Dinner Type Peppers"?

This set-up is too efficient! i'll use the panels to make my small grow closet if I get any seedlings. About 94F.

Posted Image

This is the set-up with no end panels and just foil skirts. About 91F.

Posted Image

Temperature measuring - Is this an okay method? The probe is not in the soil; the tip
just touches the soil. Maybe it's not really accurate? It's a good digital thermometer.

Posted Image
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#22 Siliman

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Posted 25 January 2012 - 11:42 PM

PaulG, cool setup and variety of experiments. It will be awesome when you feel it is all dialed. I had to laugh when you had a 2 to 3-year time frame to determine success for some stuff. Outstanding way to think! I'm in year 2 indoor starting and still discombobulated.

I move thermometers around quite a bit. Air temp in my dome and soil surface (closer to lights) runs higher than the soil temp in my plant cells. I'm using a heat mat and attached a thermostat with soil probe--standard HydroFarm stuff. Interesting to compare locations everywhere. Your grow is gonna be different heating from the top down from the lights, so hard to give advice....

.....But I wouldn't want to see 90F + air temp for very long. But I grow on the cool side of 80s and things sprout and grow okay. Some say fluctuating temps actually help germination. (That's my rationale for 'sloppy' temp controls here, lol.)

Good luck dialing..... :cool:

Edited by Siliman, 25 January 2012 - 11:50 PM.


#23 PaulG

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Posted 26 January 2012 - 12:25 AM

Okay. With no 'skirts' on the light, I'm getting 87.5F. That seems like an improvement.
If that's still a bit high, maybe I can shift the dome a bit to leave a little air gap and see
what that does. I'm amazed at the difference just hanging some foil on the light makes;
I guess 4F or so from my informal data. The corrugated reflectors maybe 6 or 7F.
The domes are holding water nicely. I'll check to see if they need a sip of water
in a couple hours.

Posted Image
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#24 PaulG

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Posted 26 January 2012 - 01:51 AM

PaulG, cool setup and variety of experiments. It will be awesome when you feel it is all dialed. I had to laugh when you had a 2 to 3-year time frame to determine success for some stuff. Outstanding way to think! I'm in year 2 indoor starting and still discombobulated.

I move thermometers around quite a bit. Air temp in my dome and soil surface (closer to lights) runs higher than the soil temp in my plant cells. I'm using a heat mat and attached a thermostat with soil probe--standard HydroFarm stuff. Interesting to compare locations everywhere. Your grow is gonna be different heating from the top down from the lights, so hard to give advice....

.....But I wouldn't want to see 90F + air temp for very long. But I grow on the cool side of 80s and things sprout and grow okay. Some say fluctuating temps actually help germination. (That's my rationale for 'sloppy' temp controls here, lol.)

Good luck dialing..... :cool:


Somehow I have the feeling your temp controls aren't too sloppy! :halo:

We'll see what we'll see. It worked okay last year with garden stuff (I never measured the temp.)
Now that it's at 87 or so, I feel better. (I just went and moved the thermometer and the reading was 84.6.
Hmmm :think: maybe I should just call it good.)

Thanks for sharing your POV on this. It's a great help.
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#25 BigCedar

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Posted 26 January 2012 - 04:33 PM

84-87 air temps should be fine, I, guessin 1/4inch down in the soil is a degree or 2 cooler..
Your question...
"I do have one question - when it's said the seeds need temps of whatever to germinate, is that soil temperature, or air temperature?"

That is soil temp :)

I used hydro farm heat thermostats with soil probs and hydro heating mats this year set at 83.. I didn't use anything on 1 of my 4 flats and the flat with no hydro equip had the least amount of germ rates for the first 2 weeks and around week 4-5 it almost caught up with the other 3 flats, still not as good of germ rates though. They make the whole process quicker anyway. They were like 20bucks at amazon.. The mats were the same. Worth the investment in my opinion :)

I'll be watchin!

Brandon



It's w

#26 S.S.Tupperware

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Posted 26 January 2012 - 04:44 PM

Justraise the lights a lil... ezpz. I do good if i hit 80...

#27 PaulG

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Posted 26 January 2012 - 08:21 PM

My data post went bizarro, so I recopied it from my computer:


Spray cells with water:

1/23
6:00a
10:00a
10:00p

1/24
10:00a
3:30p surface dry
.........added dome covers
10:00p spritz some cells

1/25
10:00a - check, still moist
4:00p - spritz some cells

1/26
12:45a
3:00p

Temperature: (at top of soil level)

1/23
11:30a........81F
4:00p..........80+
5:30p..........81

1/24
10:00a........76+ (right after opening up and misting)
11:45a........84+
..................Put clear domes on the trays
9:30p..........84+
11:30p........90 with covers and corrugated 'tent'-removed tent

1/25
12:00a........83.7 covers only
9:00a..........81.7 " "
..................added foil skirts
11:00a........87
2:00p..........94.2 - with domes and foil skirts - no end panaels
6:15p..........91.4 " "
5:45p..........91.2 " "

1/26
10:15a........81.5
11:00a........84
12:00p........84 - skirts, end panels on, domes off
12:40p........81.2
2:40p..........85
2:50p..........85
3:20p..........82.2
3:50p..........81
6:50p..........84 w/ lights raised, covers on, skirts on
9:45p..........85.4

I took Siliman's suggestion (Thanks! :dance: ) and moved the thermometer around between measure today.
It looks like if leave it alone for a few hours, it gets up to mid 80's, then drops a little when I water, etc.
I'll continue to measure every couple of hours. I removed the covers because I was a bit worried about
funk. Mold and fungii spores are a way of life in the NWUSA :halo: so an enclosed space can get slimy in a week!

By my informal calculation, the domes were on for about 36 hours. During that time the temps were 90F+ about 7 hours. Other than that, the temps have varied from about 81-87. Not having the domes on means
more attention to watering, but temps vary a bit in the desired range. I like the raise the lights suggestion - will
try that if I put the domes back on at night. Our humidity here is 85-100%, maybe that is sufficient w/o the domes.

BTW, Brandon, interesting results on your experiment.

Edited by PaulG, 27 January 2012 - 01:11 AM.

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#28 PaulG

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Posted 26 January 2012 - 11:36 PM

We're having temps round 28F tonight, and the garage will cool a few more degrees, so I put the domes
on. Hey, S.S.T. great idea raising the lights :doh: With the domes on, I can raise and lower the temperature
by raising and lowering the lights. Right now 84-85 degrees. Also less condensation with the lights
raised a notch.

Edited by PaulG, 26 January 2012 - 11:36 PM.

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#29 PaulG

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Posted 27 January 2012 - 12:07 PM

1/27

Temp
9:00a..........84.6F..........soil moist,,,,,,,,,,one red carribean hook up, soil mix
12:00p........84.2
3:00p..........86.1
6:30p..........spray cells
7:00............84.5

The winner - first to sprout - Red Carribean NMSU (in the soil mix)!

Posted Image

The temperature has stabilized nicely. The plastic domes are 2" high, and the light tubes are 1" above the domes, so 3" from soil surface to light source. There are at least seven cells with sprouts up through the surface and several more where I can see humps in the soil where sprouts are pushing up. Should have a number of plants up to list by tomorrow morning.

Edited by PaulG, 27 January 2012 - 10:51 PM.

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#30 Pulpiteer

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Posted 27 January 2012 - 01:42 PM

Nice Work Paul! I'll be following your work on the compost for sure. I just started composting this year, and it's a slower process up here, I think, with the winter. I know I could have a fancier set up, but I opted for some old pallets to form the three sides and I am getting somewhere with that. I never thought about screening it to get the good stuff out - I'm sure that's a normal thing, but first time I read it and yeah, that makes sense... I like the idea of being "soil sufficient" as much as possible, I'm not in containers, but amending the soil with your own stuff as much as possible is appealing. I hope the seeds aren't too temperature sensative. My air temps range from 74 to 86 depending on if the lights are on, when the furnace kicked in, etc.
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#31 PaulG

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Posted 27 January 2012 - 05:32 PM

Thanks. For years my compost pile was in a chain link fence; it produced some great
compost, just more work to get at. Your pallets are a great solution, sturdy
and lots of air circulation. I'll bet it works great. It only took me a decade or two
to come up with the strainer! Doh! As for temperature and germinating, it seems
to me that since they re-seed themselves in the natural world where there is no
such thing as totally constant temperature that a little variation can't be awful.
Of course, I'm just a hobbyist. If I get one seed to make it out of three, I'm happy.
Extra bonus plants go to neighbors. The folk growing out for product need a much
better result than that, so control of variables is probably crucial to get that high
germination rate. Good luck in your Michigan Spring!
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#32 PaulG

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Posted 27 January 2012 - 08:16 PM

Hey, Andy. This is what my first pile looked like.

Posted Image


The 'new' bins are built on
the ground where the original pile was; basically the 1 x 12 boards just divide
up the space and make it easier to manage. They are not as efficient
as a tumbler type drum composter, but I'm not in a real hurry, either.

Here's the active pile with a nice layer of Starbuck's Coffee Grounds
sprinkled with kitchen scraps, Yum (say the worms.):

Posted Image
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#33 Pulpiteer

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Posted 28 January 2012 - 12:16 AM

Nice. The new bins look fancy. What are the tomato cages in the old bin for? Nice score on the coffee grounds btw
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#34 PaulG

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Posted 28 January 2012 - 01:45 AM

Actually that's the new version of the old bin :)
It's a convenient place to store my tomato cages!

It's cool that Starbuck's gives away
their grounds. I'll bet any coffee place
would do that!

Have you thought covering your compost bin with
some kind of reflective material, like an old mylar
blanket? That might help alleviate the cold winter
slowdowns.

Edited by PaulG, 28 January 2012 - 01:48 AM.

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#35 megahot

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Posted 28 January 2012 - 02:24 AM

1/27

Temp
9:00a..........84.6F..........soil moist,,,,,,,,,,one red carribean hook up, soil mix
12:00p........84.2
3:00p..........86.1
6:30p..........spray cells
7:00............84.5

The winner - first to sprout - Red Carribean NMSU (in the soil mix)!

Posted Image

The temperature has stabilized nicely. The plastic domes are 2" high, and the light tubes are 1" above the domes, so 3" from soil surface to light source. There are at least seven cells with sprouts up through the surface and several more where I can see humps in the soil where sprouts are pushing up. Should have a number of plants up to list by tomorrow morning.


Lookin good buddy!
Chili head till I'm dead!!!!

#36 Pulpiteer

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Posted 28 January 2012 - 10:48 AM

Ahhh gotcha! I do have one of the piles covered with some old burlap bags, not sure if that helps or not. I didn't think of the mylar blanket, I wonder if that would work... I've been thinking about worms too - I see you were over on that other thread on the home made worm farm in the grow tech area. My sister in law has been doing the worm stuff and I might get some help from her.

by the way - that is a nice sprout of that Caribbean Red :halo:
I also noticed on your grow list that you basically got the same peppers from Refining fire that I did. The scotch bonnet, jamaican mushroom and chocolate hab. I'm excited for all of those. Did you get the seed mix? How does that work? Are they separated out, or do you just get a bunch of unidentified seeds? And have you tried any of those peppers?
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#37 PaulG

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Posted 28 January 2012 - 01:23 PM

Ahhh gotcha! I do have one of the piles covered with some old burlap bags, not sure if that helps or not. I didn't think of the mylar blanket, I wonder if that would work... I've been thinking about worms too - I see you were over on that other thread on the home made worm farm in the grow tech area. My sister in law has been doing the worm stuff and I might get some help from her.

by the way - that is a nice sprout of that Caribbean Red :halo:
I also noticed on your grow list that you basically got the same peppers from Refining fire that I did. The scotch bonnet, jamaican mushroom and chocolate hab. I'm excited for all of those. Did you get the seed mix? How does that work? Are they separated out, or do you just get a bunch of unidentified seeds? And have you tried any of those peppers?


What might be cool (warm?) is a mylar sheet or a 'space' blanket like we use for ground cloths when camping - plastic coated on one side, reflective foil on the other. You could put it over the burlap. reflective side down. Then you'd have a little insulation and reflection of heat back to the pile. I think you'd have to allow for a little air circ.

I did get the Scotch Bonnet mix (10). The seeds came individually packaged and labeled in coin envelopes. I'm new to these type of peppers, so won't try them until (if) I have some pods. I can handle serrano and jalapenos no prob, but these hotter varieties will be a new experience. I'm eager to sample them and learn how to use them.

Lookin good buddy!


Tx, Jon. Have a good day!

Edited by PaulG, 28 January 2012 - 01:24 PM.

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#38 PaulG

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Posted 28 January 2012 - 02:52 PM

1/28 - seeds germinated (showing cotyledons) 6th day:

Orchid Mix:
1x serrano - Hume Seeds
1x congo trinidad - PM

Soil Mix:
1x bolivian rainbow - USHot
1x fatali - PM
2x red carribean - MNSU - 3 total
1x inca red drop - PM
1x omnicolor - NMSU
2x bishop's crown - PM
1x Marconi Rosso - Hume Seeds

Total so far 12

The germination set-up that seems to work in my garage. Ambient temps 60-68F.
Temperatures are hovering around 84 to 85F in the germinator trays.
There is about a one-inch space between the bottom of the foil skirts and the
bench top, and the ends are blocked off:

Posted Image

The light fixture has 2 - 48" GE Sunshine F 40 full spectrum flourescent tubes. The light source is
3" from the soil surface:

Posted Image

Day 6. Orchid Mix on the left, soil mix on the right:

Posted Image

Edited by PaulG, 28 January 2012 - 03:30 PM.

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#39 PaulG

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 12:55 PM

1/29 - seeds germinated (showing cotyledons) 7th day:

Orchid Mix:

1x fatali - PM
3x inca red drop - PM
2x omnicolor - NMSU
2x bishop's crown - PM
1x red carribean - NMSU
2x bolivian rainbow - USHot

Soil Mix:

2x congo trinidad - PM
1x omnicolor - NMSU - 2 total
1x marconi rosso - Hume Seeds - 2 total
1x long red cayenne - Ferry Morse
1x bolivian rainbow - USHot - 2 total
1x serrano - Hume Seeds

Total so far 30

I'm seeing at least a half-dozen hooks on the
soil side this morning, as well.

Day 7. Orchid mix on the left, soil mix on the right:

Posted Image

Edited by PaulG, 29 January 2012 - 01:33 PM.

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#40 SocalChilehead

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 10:36 PM

They look great Paul.





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