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Douglah/Butch T questions/opinions and ebay debate

Hi Guys, I actually just signed up upon seeing some discussions on here as well as @thinklikeh20's truffle video. I haven't been in the pepper growing biz since the end of this past fall, in which I had a good 40 bhut jolokia's on 2 plants (both of which survived through hurricane Irene and still doubled in size and kept producing). Even before then I haven't really kept up on hot pepper news until today, when I found out that besides the Trini Scorpion, there's a Butch T version, and the Douglah. I actually found out about them on ebay while shopping for seeds, and started looking up reviews for both, thus me landing on this site. I know a few people have asked for seeds or ask other members for their seeds, or trade and whatnot. I actually have seeds of a lot of things aside from peppers to trade if it came to that, but that's getting off topic.

My first debate is, although the past year has brought me some good sellers of seeds on ebay, I know a lot of people have phoney butch T seeds or douglah seeds, and not all their pictures match up. I've seen two douglah pics, one with a very rough looking wrinkly texture even while still green, and round like a habanero shape, and one that was a little longer like a bhut jolokia with a rounded tip, and smooth texture. That got me to question it. Anyone have experience buying from ebay these types of seeds, and what are your thoughts?

Second is hearing mixed reviews about the Douglah, and not hearing much about Butch T as far as flavor goes. Douglah was described as earthy and sweet, but others say it's pungent and tastes nasty, and I'm not sure if they were referring to the chocolate douglah or the yellow ones that I've also seen being sold around. Granted to each their own, I just don't know if I would get these seeds if their allegedly bad flavor would affect whatever they're put in or on as far as food goes. Anyone have more accurate descriptions about those and the Butch T, and if the two peppers competed, which would be hotter, which would have better flavor, and which would be avoided as to not put someone in a hospital?

Lastly, I'd like to get some seeds, but I do have the suspicion about ebay. If anyone has genuine butch T and douglah seeds (chocolate or yellow) and are willing to spare a few, I could paypal a few bucks for shipping, or trade my own seeds, even if they aren't pepper seeds, since I'm assuming most of my pepper seeds everyone who's a grower would probably have already, lol.

Anyway, thanks for the advice in advance, hopefully I can make a decision or trade with some of you for a handful of a few types of seeds, I'd also be looking for...I forget what they're called, Blue something or other peppers, I just know that they look like dark purple grape-shaped peppers that ripen to a bright orange, had them in my Aerogarden seed kit years ago, those I'd be willing to trade for some too. Feel free to PM me if you don't mind parting ways with a few seeds, or if you want to know what other kinds of seeds I have.
 
:welcome: Just a hint, pepper flavor and preferances are pure opinion. I am fond of TS regs because it was my first SuperHot. Its tough to sell on Ebay most everybody thinks your a scammer.
 
If you want BTs you can get them straight from Butch himself, he's a member here.

Post in the Marketplace and I'm sure you can work something out with one of out upstanding members. Welcome aboard =)
 
Thanks guys, I'll take a look around.

Also what's the real difference between butch T and TS Regs?

@justaguy - thanks, and yellow douglah I meant yellow trinidad 7 pot: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Trinidad-7-Pot-7-Pod-Yellow-1000-Seeds-Free-Shipping-/250981788897?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a6fae2ce1#ht_813wt_1163

I forgot the two have "7 pot" in common for the name, not "douglah"

@prehensile- i know flavor and such are personal opinions, but I wouldn't turn down a pepper without finding out how other people feel about them, and thanks as well :)
 
In my opinion Douglah's should be Brown/Maroon colour and pimply gnarly looking. Whats this about yellow Douglah? :)

Difference between regular T.S.'s and Butch T's is probably up for debate however i believe that the only difference is the fact they were selected by Mr Taylor for the chatacteristics that he liked and desired. As far as Genes go there is probably VERY little difference.
 
A yellow Douglah, if it exists, is a hybrid and wouldn't be a true Douglah (which itself is probably a stabilized hybrid but I digress). I personally haven't seen them (stable at least) but I'm sure there are plenty of unstable crosses around. I would say they are either selling Yellow 7's or something labeled as Douglahs or they have a Douglah x Yellow 7 or something that probably hasn't been completely stabilized yet. It'd still be cool to grow, something new, and maybe they're even mustard color which would be awesome.

To answer your questions: The Douglah itself has one of the widest ranges of phenotypes I've ever seen. Basically that just means that it has a lot of genetic variance. I blame accidental crosses, false labeling, and geographic isolation over generations for this. I suppose that it's even possible that the first douglahs that got sent out weren't 100% stable and some kept making mutants. Make sure you know the pictures of the pods you see are the same pods you are getting the seeds from if you want to know what kind you're getting. Here are the telltale characteristics that I believe you will find in a true Douglah:

-Deep Maroon to Brown in color
-Gnarled 'habanero' shape (kinda), often very bumpy
-EXTREMELY hot, easily in the top 5 hottest
-Light colored insides covered in oil

If you don't have all four of those you probably have something else.

As far as the 'Butch T' goes, it is the same thing as a Trinidad Scorpion. But wait I'm not done there. The Butch T has been isolated for at least a decade and has been selected for by not only Butch Taylor but several other growers down the line. This means that there has been a slight amount of genetic drift in the strain and they won't produce the exact same pods as if you got a landrace scorpion from Trinidad. In general you can consider them to be 98+% the same strain.

If you want true Butch T seeds it really depends on what you're looking for. If you want the seeds direct from Butch Taylor you can try to do that, but if you want the seeds that came from the same batch that made the record books, get them from www.thehippyseedcompany.com

Neil there is great and he has access to the same batch of seeds that made the record. That doesn't mean they'll grow the hottest peppers in the world, but you have that added benefit of knowing that the seeds were from record breaking pods.
 
For all future replies, incase someone missed it, I was mistaken and I didn't mean a yellow Douglah, I meant I've seen a yellow trinidad 7 pot pepper for sale, like the ebay link here: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Trinidad-7-Pot-7-Pod-Yellow-1000-Seeds-Free-Shipping-/250981788897?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a6fae2ce1#ht_813wt_1163

Just to clear up that confusion, I got the two terms confused, douglah and 7 pot :P .

@mrz1988: I'm not quite sure WHAT I'm looking for, lol. Perhaps just an increase in my collection and variety of seeds, and to try new things out and see how they are. However, I'd want to get some reviews of the peppers first, because certain ones (i.e. the brown douglah) some people say are rather pungent and possibly nasty tasting, and some people say they taste sweet. Good to know about what the Butch T strain is, I wasn't exactly sure what the name meant before you said anything.

I guess I'll just post in the marketplace to see if anyone has any seeds to trade or just a surplus of some and is willing to send me a handful to try them out. Same idea goes for any readers and responders to this thread. I have plenty of seeds to trade but theyre more for certain plants/flowers/etc than hot peppers. I only really have chocolate habanero seeds and bhut jolokia seeds, as far as crazy hot peppers go, and a bunch more in the milder region of peppers, but I'm sure anyone who I'd be trading with already have those seeds anyway.
 
I've grown the Douglah a couple of times and wasn't a fan of the flavor. In my experience it has a "earthy" flavor, almost like dirt. Not very enjoyable to me. Thing is you don't get much chance to dislike or like the flavor as the heat is a beast. When turned into powder the flavor isn't quite as bad and you cold use it to bring up the heat in a dish. I wouldn't use it with anything that has delicate flavors though.
 
To me, the Douglah was awful tasting when I ate them straight from the plant fresh. I made a puree with Douglah this year and it is one of the most wonderful tasting chile items I have ever had. Can't explain it.
 
Nice going chileaddict. Did you mix it with anything in the puree? If so let me know, I'm open to all sorts of ideas with new things to grow. Right now my only goal was making a few crushed pepper batches or powder batches, most of the hot sauce recipes I googled for (at least for my bhut jolokias) came out very watery so I'll need to look through this forum for something more like a tomato-based sauce/paste recipe as well.
 
Nice going chileaddict. Did you mix it with anything in the puree? If so let me know, I'm open to all sorts of ideas with new things to grow. Right now my only goal was making a few crushed pepper batches or powder batches, most of the hot sauce recipes I googled for (at least for my bhut jolokias) came out very watery so I'll need to look through this forum for something more like a tomato-based sauce/paste recipe as well.


I used a puree recipe that Alabama Jack shared. It had a little vinegar, salt, and agave nectar. Also, I did add a few Chocolate Habs with the Douglahs, but don't know if it changed the taste any.
 
I don't like the flavor of either one, and both types can have drastically different pod shapes. Douglahs get much more pimply/gnarly when grown in warmer conditions like my greenhouse or in the South. ButchT pods taste worse than other Scorpions IMO and don't always have the desired "tail/stinger" but they pack a whole lot of heat.
 
I agree with chilliadict, fantastic when used in cooking. Imparts a smoky bbq like taste. BTW one point - what you feed em makes a difference too. Use chem ferts, you will end up with chillies that taste like battery acid. Use organics and the sweetness comes out.
 
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