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grafting for hot peppers?


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#21 Lucky Dog Hot Sauce

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 12:49 PM

There have been a couple of links posted already - the link I posted previously takes you to another forum... but there I post the name, journal, and authors of about 8 papers. I also have pictures of my failed graft attempts and such...

IIRC it has to do with a young scion not having its defenses against foreign genetic material fully formed...

Think gene pool, instead of block foundation... Put a drop of dye in a pool, and it can make a good bit of difference. or not.


Fascinating stuff - thanks for the education. This is why I never profess to be a knowitall - just speak from experience.

I would think that for such a thing to occur (grafting hybridization) you'd need more than a fair amount of luck, no?

First you need to get lucky in having a soft tissue plant take the graft, then you need to get really lucky that the genetic soup mixes just so?

Seems a heck of a lot easier to just breed with a pollinator. It's already a crapshoot as to how your hybrid will come out - other than "love of science" I don't see much reason to go this route except for the practical benefits mentioned before.

Really a fascinating topic though!


#22 jsschrstrcks

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 03:28 PM

Yeah my inner science geek was (is) really excited by the prospect.

The other thing that I like is the seeds are stable and produce like plants. I have no idea about some of the more exotic crosses like a tomato x pepper, but, pepper x pepper the seeds are stable. there are something like 75 varieties of pepper that have been created this way.

Not that I could name any of them haha.
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#23 mushroombob

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 01:34 AM

Ok, I will chime in.,

I have been working on the same thing, for no reason other than to have a plant with multiple types of peppers. Mostly to have the kids in the school garden see an example of grafting.

anyway, I have done grafting with soft tissue plants very successfully... peppers seem to be a little more difficult.

I have a plant right now with a scion of big jim on a c. anuum bell (it was the biggest plant I had and I wanted lots of branches so I could do lots of scions)

I quickly did about 7 to 10 scions of different peppers (all anuum) and all died but one. I did a wedge graft and I included 1 control (scion the same as rootstock)

the one that lived is healthy and leafing out. I then did a couple of t-buds like you would typically do with citrus, and they both took. so I may try some more of those.

I wanted to get it all growing well and then post a log with lots of pics, but it seems like the topic is going and people are trying things so I want to share my experience.

I will post pics when I get back home, as I am out of town for a while.

please try things out and post pics

#24 Lucky Dog Hot Sauce

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 01:47 AM

Ok, I will chime in.,

I have been working on the same thing, for no reason other than to have a plant with multiple types of peppers. Mostly to have the kids in the school garden see an example of grafting.

anyway, I have done grafting with soft tissue plants very successfully... peppers seem to be a little more difficult.

I have a plant right now with a scion of big jim on a c. anuum bell (it was the biggest plant I had and I wanted lots of branches so I could do lots of scions)

I quickly did about 7 to 10 scions of different peppers (all anuum) and all died but one. I did a wedge graft and I included 1 control (scion the same as rootstock)

the one that lived is healthy and leafing out. I then did a couple of t-buds like you would typically do with citrus, and they both took. so I may try some more of those.

I wanted to get it all growing well and then post a log with lots of pics, but it seems like the topic is going and people are trying things so I want to share my experience.

I will post pics when I get back home, as I am out of town for a while.

please try things out and post pics


Good luck & I'm excited to see the pics!

#25 jsschrstrcks

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 03:47 AM

same.

As an update, my approach mentor grafted scion and host are both doing well. host has succumbed to the various tropisms that make it grow straight up. So I made sure to point the scion side of the plant towards the south that way it gets at least some sun in the morning.
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#26 jsschrstrcks

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 08:37 AM

UPDATE: both scion and host are still doing well... scion is producing a new leaf... taking that to be a great sign... I don't want to un-tape them just yet though.
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#27 stc3248

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 08:45 AM

Good job jss...been too busy on this end to get any experiments in. Likely to be too busy this weekend as well. I have a bunch to transplant today, and cars to work on. We'll see. Glad you're having success!

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#28 jsschrstrcks

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 09:02 AM

well hopefully I'll end up with a graft hybrid pod... thats the success I'm holding out for haha :) thanks though.
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#29 Dulac

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 10:35 AM

Rather than having a scion and rootstock maybe we can graft differently (so it's easy). There is this process that occurs naturally called inosculation where trees grow up separately and self-graft from wind blowing them and rubbing their bark. I want to try this with a few of my peppers by taking two plants and conjoining them from the sides rather than cutting two in half as we do with traditional grafting. I want to do this because I found the idea of nutrient sharing very nice and it seems you could make a monster plant if it can be done successfully.

Edit: Here is the wiki entry for inosculation:

http://en.wikipedia....ki/Inosculation

Not very informative yet unfortunately.

Edited by Dulac, 25 February 2012 - 10:38 AM.


#30 mushroombob

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 02:58 PM

that can be done pretty easily, that would basically be an approach graft.

I have done it with poinsettias lots, and it works well if you want a specific root with one top..... I guess you could put a bunch of seedlings in one hole and let them grow together....

I need to take pics of mine and post

#31 jsschrstrcks

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 04:50 PM

If you read back a little bit Dulac you'll find that is exactly what I've done and suggested to the original poster. :).

seems to be doing well as true leaves popped up on the scion... we shall see. 4 week healing time and I'm only a week or so into the process.

Edited by jsschrstrcks, 25 February 2012 - 05:05 PM.

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#32 Dulac

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 02:33 AM

If you read back a little bit Dulac you'll find that is exactly what I've done and suggested to the original poster. :).

seems to be doing well as true leaves popped up on the scion... we shall see. 4 week healing time and I'm only a week or so into the process.


My apologies! You have experience doing that way? If you do, did you get any chimera hybrids? I don't think the genes gets passed down through inheritance with grafted hybrids (the reason for the adj. chimera).


that can be done pretty easily, that would basically be an approach graft.

I have done it with poinsettias lots, and it works well if you want a specific root with one top..... I guess you could put a bunch of seedlings in one hole and let them grow together....

I need to take pics of mine and post


That could work and they may conjoin themselves together. I'm going to try twisting some very young seedlings, having their cotyledons facing opposite directions and guide their growth from there.

Edited by Dulac, 26 February 2012 - 02:35 AM.


#33 jsschrstrcks

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 12:42 PM

I've attempted 3 grafts, two were apical wedge grafts, and both resulted in the death of the scion, the third is an approach graft, and it seems to be doing well at the present moment... but there again, I'm only a week into the process. The scion was a seedling with only its cotyledons showing, and it has since spouted a pair of true leaves. I left them on, though when the next set of true leaves pop, I will cut the first set off in accordance with the mentor graft methodology.

According to the research I linked on the first page, the young age of the scion, and host (host is 1-3 months, scion is a fresh - if a bit leggy - seedling), allows for the transfer of certain types of genetic material - and while perhaps not systemic, at the graft site, a new node will form causing the new variety that should grow true.

As the scion grows, I intend to graft it back into the main stalk at several locations... Mostly for aesthetic reasons... but still.
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#34 stc3248

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 11:18 AM

New grafting attempt... I had a Fatalii that fried in the greenhouse some time ago that lost all its leaves, I thought it was a gonner, but it just started putting out new growth at the node. The scion is a Yellow Bhut that germinated a few days ago. I have 3 other Yellow Bhuts up and running so I thought what the hay! Posted Image Here they are with what is either the creators tool or the murder weapon??? Posted Image The scion or victim...time will tell. Posted Image The Fatalii parent plant...this time I made the groove pretty deep. Posted Image You can see where I started to slice away material from the scion...I ended up cutting deeper than is shown (maybe too deep). Posted Image The two young lovers ready to be joined forever...or until one or both die. Posted Image Together at last...fingers crossed! This one should tell me pretty quick if its gonna make it...I brutalized that poor little Yellow Bhut. The little fatalii though it will be stunted I thought would be the perfect host. Hopefully it continues its recovery and the new leaves finish forming. I moved them out of the direct light for the next few days. I may add a rubber band around the graft site to make sure its nice and tight. Thanks for looking, Shane

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#35 mushroombob

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Posted 10 March 2012 - 09:14 PM

so bad news from my plants. I had a graft take and put out a bunch of new leaves, then I came home a couple of days ago and it is wilting and dying.

I think the rootstock is not doing so well. I am going to try again......

I am bummed because I dont think I took any pictures.... convenient huh?

#36 synclinorium

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Posted 10 March 2012 - 09:21 PM

I know people who do bonchis will sometimes grow multiple plants in close proximity and have the stems fuse over time... don't see why you couldn't do this with different species. I might try this for the hell of it...

#37 jsschrstrcks

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Posted 10 March 2012 - 09:39 PM

I should have done this sooner, its been in my GLog... but not everyone goes to that part of the site, so I digress.

For my first attempt, I tried a apical wedge graft...

I cut the top off a pepper, and the roots off a scion at the cotyledon stage, and shaved the sides so that over the course of an inch the scion was bare and angled off to a point. On the host, I topped it as mentioned, and then cut a wedge into it just barely large enough to accommodate the scion. I stuck scion into host, and used packaging tape sticky side out. After 24 hours, the scion had wilted. Within 48 it had failed. So I tried again - same method, only using more tape this time. It looked great for a few days, but started to turn. I discovered that if I placed a single drop of water on the scion, and let it run down into the tape, it would perk the scion up a bit... After two days and two very long nights, it became apparent that it was going to fail, so I gave up on the frequent moistening, and within an additional 48 hours the second attempt had failed. So I decided to try a third time - an approach graft.

I selected a host, and a scion of the ages I wanted, and measured so I would know where the cuts/scrapes would need to be. I cut a 1/4inch square section of the outer later off the host, and then scraped the scion in a similar way. I held the two pieces together, and then used my sticky side out tape method. The scion was looking great, after two weeks I put it out in the sun. But the neighbors dog pulled the container off the work bench, and while he didn't eat it, he did mess up the graft... So I took the same host (poor thing, this is his 4th grafting attempt). And made a half inch wide, by 1/2 inch tall flap between the second and third nodes. I took a new scion (scotch bonnet once again, but a different one) and scraped the skin off 80% of the way around the stem, placed the stem inside of the flap on the host, and used my backwards tape method to hold everything together. It has now been 6 days, ,and thus far everything has been looking good... The host has secondary growth, and is trying to bud, while the scion is producing its first set of true leaves.

http://www.thehotpep...-picture-heavy/ is my Glog for those of you that are interested.

Posted Image

things were going swimingly until my scion was attacked by some unknown critter...

Posted Image
As you can see just above the tape are two cotyledons, one of which you can see daylight through where something ate most of the way through the stem that holds that particular cotyledon.

My knee jerk reaction is to find some nasty chemical and drown the soil in it to kill whatever is responsible... But I think I'll try pulling the plant(s) out, dumping the soil in the canal, rinsing the dirt from the roots, and re-potting in fresh potting soil...

Edited by jsschrstrcks, 10 March 2012 - 09:58 PM.

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#38 synclinorium

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Posted 10 March 2012 - 09:49 PM

Interesting... certainly something worth trying with extra seeds sprouted in cells... I mean, if you're going to remove them anyway...

#39 stc3248

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Posted 10 March 2012 - 10:27 PM

Here is my first graft attempt that I failed to post here...I wasn't planning on cutting it loose for another week, but I found an earwig on there this morning that took the "when to cut the roots loose" guesswork out of the picture....it had chewed the stem completely in half just above the peat pellet.

Posted Image
The Scion is a Red Lantern Hab the host is a Jalapeno...

Posted Image
Here they are joined...I used the same technique as above, but less aggressive with the knife on both host and Scion.

Posted Image


Posted Image
Here it is now, I don't know if it will pull through, but it seems to be doing ok. Really think it needed a little more time.

Posted Image
The new growth is a good sign...but also a curse, now that it is dependent on the host for nutes and has more growth that needs it...

My second little graft is doing very well and pushing out some new growth as well! I have it back under the lights.

Been a cool experiment, and if I actually dedicated a little more time and resources to the project very doable.

I will keep you guys posted.
Shane

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#40 stc3248

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 04:18 PM

Here is the first graft attempt this morning. You can see that it has a tiny bit of root left in the previous photo. I had to add another peat pellet to it for a while to keep it from wilting/dying. Finally cut it completely loose yesterday and its still kicking! Lasted overnight with no wilt so fingers crossed. Only the tiniest bit of new growth, but I figure that's soon to change. It has been away from good light since the process started. A few more days and I'll start easing it back into a light schedule!
Posted Image
I clipped it just above where the tiny root was then cut a small flap and tucked the cut end into the host plant and twist tied it together.

Posted Image
That is the peat pellet that the scion's roots were using at the bottom of the pic its about 4 more inches down to the soil.

Posted Image
Hopefully momma will remember to mist this little guy a few times today for me. Thinking of pruning the two shoots directly above the graft back to within an inch of the fork to see it that will focus the growth into the scion haven't decided yet.

Now the real test. About 14 hours without daddy here to take care of him! I put him to bed inside a cool dark cabinet this morning.
Shane

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