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#21 salsalady

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 10:36 PM

BINGO! +2 to both of you.

But making a sauce with those ingredients is legal....what's the other issue?
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#22 midwestchilehead

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 10:45 PM

It is made by JoeBlow CPA? What spices?
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#23 salsalady

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 10:53 PM

:lol:


no, it's referring to a theoretical sauce made by an unlicensed person selling it to the public, and there were some referenced in posts before that about people assuming responsibility for their own health. The point was that if JoeBlow saw a sauce labeled like that, would he know there were potential health issues?

edit-
here's the original theoretical question-

Does JoeBlow CPA have that same basic food knowledge [as most of us onTHP]? What would you think of if you saw a sauce in a woozy bottle with the ingredients listed as "jalapenos, onions, garlic, salt, spices"?

JoeBlow would think "WOW! I love those Flavors! This sounds like a great sauce!" But what's the problem with the sauce described above?"

And the question still stands- what are the problems with that sauce?

Edited by salsalady, 27 April 2012 - 10:57 PM.

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#24 Lucky Dog Hot Sauce

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Posted 28 April 2012 - 09:45 AM

So no acidity, and I have no idea what "spices" are. Also the order of ingredients indicates that Jalapeno is the most prominent ingredient, which is weird. Also since there's no liquid of any kind listed I'm not sure how this is a "sauce" - seems like it'd be more like a paste. I also don't know what kind of salt they're using - could be iodized salt (complete with anti-caking agent).

Edited by Lucky Dog Hot Sauce, 28 April 2012 - 09:45 AM.


#25 salsalady

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Posted 28 April 2012 - 10:12 AM

well, the other issue I was trying to portray is-
it is safe to sell a sauce made with those low acid ingredients if it had been pressure canned.

Woozy bottles with plastic caps cannot be pressure canned. So, by looking at the ingredients and seeing (1)no acid in the sauce, and (2) it's packaged in a woozy bottle that I know can't be pressure canned...I wouldn't touch that with a 50 foot pole! If those same ingredients were sold in a glass jar with a metal lid (the kind that "pop" when opened), I would know it had been pressure canned. The lack of acid is not an issue and I would have not problem at all buying that sauce.

Bringing this back to JoeBlow consumer, I seriously doubt JoeBlow would know those things.
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#26 Lucky Dog Hot Sauce

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Posted 28 April 2012 - 10:49 AM

well, the other issue I was trying to portray is-
it is safe to sell a sauce made with those low acid ingredients if it had been pressure canned.

Woozy bottles with plastic caps cannot be pressure canned. So, by looking at the ingredients and seeing (1)no acid in the sauce, and (2) it's packaged in a woozy bottle that I know can't be pressure canned...I wouldn't touch that with a 50 foot pole! If those same ingredients were sold in a glass jar with a metal lid (the kind that "pop" when opened), I would know it had been pressure canned. The lack of acid is not an issue and I would have not problem at all buying that sauce.

Bringing this back to JoeBlow consumer, I seriously doubt JoeBlow would know those things.


I've been making sauce for 7 years and *I* wouldn't know those things. I know nothing about pressure canning, or canning in general. I know what I know because of what I've done - pasteurizing, hot packing, etc.

I'd just assumed this was a pasteurized hot-packed "sauce" - though like I said, can't see how it would be anything but a paste without liquid (other than a little from the onion/peppers).

So you're absolutely correct - Joe Blow will know far far far less.

#27 dub_sauces

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Posted 10 April 2017 - 09:35 PM

:lol:


no, it's referring to a theoretical sauce made by an unlicensed person selling it to the public, and there were some referenced in posts before that about people assuming responsibility for their own health. The point was that if JoeBlow saw a sauce labeled like that, would he know there were potential health issues?

edit-
here's the original theoretical question-

Does JoeBlow CPA have that same basic food knowledge [as most of us onTHP]? What would you think of if you saw a sauce in a woozy bottle with the ingredients listed as "jalapenos, onions, garlic, salt, spices"?

JoeBlow would think "WOW! I love those Flavors! This sounds like a great sauce!" But what's the problem with the sauce described above?"

And the question still stands- what are the problems with that sauce?

 

just want to add one thing to your very informative posting here,  in this day and age when every other person seems to have a ridiculous allergy to one thing or another, "spices" doesnt quite cut it.  what if they are alergic to cumin, or turmeric, or black pepper (my sister has that one, but she can eat white pepper just fine) , etc etc...   if you just put spices on the label there are a lot of people who will just not buy it because they wont know if it has their particular allergen in it... and then there are the ones who will buy it because it doesn't specifically mention something they are allergic to and then they will have a reaction (sometimes quite serious) and that could open up a legal can of worms you just don't want to deal with.


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#28 The Hot Pepper

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Posted 10 April 2017 - 09:48 PM

Case in point our member D3monic won't buy because of that.

#29 salsalady

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Posted 10 April 2017 - 11:59 PM

Exactly.  My brother-in-law is deathly allergic to onions, to the point that a spice mix with onion powder made him sick for 2 days. 


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#30 spicefreak

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Posted 27 April 2017 - 10:25 AM

Are you saying that onion was hidden under "spices"? Onion isn't a spice, that's bad.

Oh and Lucky Dog, assuming that the hypothetical sauce doesn't use an unlisted ingredients, my thoughts are it would probably be made with frozen peppers that have picked up condensation and such. If they've been left out the freezer too long, my experience says they'll have gained a good bit of moisture but also gone mushy and not be at their nicest.
I wouldn't recommend it but it would solve the lack of liquid.

Edited by spicefreak, 27 April 2017 - 10:38 AM.


#31 ColdSmoke

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Posted 27 April 2017 - 10:59 AM

There's a black market for my illegal hobby sauce. The fact that it might kill you makes it more intriguing...

 

In all seriousness, good discussion; I have a buddy thinking about getting in the business. I'll show him this thread. 



#32 spicefreak

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Posted 27 April 2017 - 12:05 PM

There's a black market for my illegal hobby sauce. The fact that it might kill you makes it more intriguing...


Fugu Black, the most dangerous sauce off the market.

Edited by spicefreak, 27 April 2017 - 12:06 PM.


#33 Hybrid Mode 01

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Posted 30 April 2017 - 09:11 AM


Oh and Lucky Dog, assuming that the hypothetical sauce doesn't use an unlisted ingredients, my thoughts are it would probably be made with frozen peppers that have picked up condensation and such. If they've been left out the freezer too long, my experience says they'll have gained a good bit of moisture but also gone mushy and not be at their nicest.
I wouldn't recommend it but it would solve the lack of liquid.

 

     Peppers don't gain moisture in the freezer. They lose moisture that condenses and freezes to the inside of their containers.



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#34 spicefreak

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Posted 30 April 2017 - 09:35 AM

I have serious doubts that the amount of liquid that came out of my last defrosted Ghost over a day or two originated from the pepper. I'm not even sure it could have fit.

#35 Hybrid Mode 01

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Posted 30 April 2017 - 10:26 AM

     Then where did it come from? :think:

 


Edited by Hybrid_Mode_01, 30 April 2017 - 10:27 AM.


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#36 Furious Sauces

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Posted 08 May 2017 - 11:01 AM

Great post! Personally cutting corners is not an option for us. Even if we skirt by every month, I dread when the insurance comes knocking. It's a big chunk of change, but it's necessary to have. If someone gets sick tasting a sauce, trips over your tent at an event, (or who knows what) you need to make sure you're covered.

 

Being certified doesn't mean every sauce maker knows every cook method or canning method. I'm sure a lot of us know the method we use to make our products, and the other methods aren't as familiar. The biggest problem when taking the better process control class was that most of the information applied to large productions, and every piece of equipment was industrial sized. It's difficult to relate to a lot of the information you learn there because almost no one starts out in a large production facility like that using equipment that costs hundreds of thousands.

 

Agree that reviewers should state if its a hobby sauce or legally made sauce. We all put a lot of effort into our products and spend a lot of time and money to do it the right and safe way for our customers.


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#37 salsalady

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Posted 08 May 2017 - 07:15 PM

Good comments, Furious~.  Thanks for joining the conversation.

 

Regarding the BPCS- I make a BBQ sauce that contains butter.  I'd been making other vinegar and fruit based sauces for 10 years and never had any issues with the PA or state inspector.  pH test, hot fill/hold...good to go!  Because the BBQ sauce contains that one ingredient- Butter- I had to get BPCS certified, and the packing process was still Hot Fill/Hold.  Go Figure!  :rolleyes:

 

...and I have to record pH testing on every batch, physical exam of the bottles prior to filling, packaging temps, BlahBlahBlah, and if I don't have the box check-marked on the processing chart that I "examined bottles prior to filling" when the inspector comes to visit, I get marked down on the inspection report.  (don't get me started!)... 

 

I understand what you are saying about the BPCS being geared towards larger processing plants.  There still is a niche for a small batch processor to use pressure canning and with new packaging pouches, some of those can be done small batch also.  Several folks have recently been asking about using metal caps on the woozy bottles.  BPCS might be a part of that process. 

 

Side Note- this thread started in 2012.  Most reviewers have revised their comments to include differentiation of hobby sauces and legal sauces.  Some still do hobby sauces, some don't post hobby sauce reviews but still offer private comments to hobby sauce makers working towards a legal sauce for R&D.  Most hot sauce competitions and awards now only honor legal sauces.

 

I still see folks selling on hobby sauces FB, but most people here on THP are aware of the difference and thankfully, most hobby sauce makers post as such.  I'm happy to eat, trade for, support, hobby sauces.  That's how most sauce makers start!  As long as I know it is such and is not presented as a legal sauce.


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#38 The Hot Pepper

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Posted 08 May 2017 - 07:27 PM

There's a black market for my illegal hobby sauce. The fact that it might kill you makes it more intriguing...
 
In all seriousness, good discussion; I have a buddy thinking about getting in the business. I'll show him this thread.


Fugu Black, the most dangerous sauce off the market.

 
You obviously have not received hot sauces in old French's mustard squeeze bottles with duct tape labels. I have.

#39 spicefreak

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Posted 08 May 2017 - 07:44 PM

 You obviously have not received hot sauces in old French's mustard squeeze bottles with duct tape labels. I have.

 

I've had Reaper sauces without any warnings, plastic bottles that pepper sprayed their parcel and jam jars with nothing but the word "hot" chalked on the lid but no, not that. Never that.

 

My joke, however, relied on the fact that "Fugu" is pufferfish meat, something that you really really do not want to be getting from an unlicensed seller.



#40 salsalady

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Posted 08 May 2017 - 08:20 PM

I got the pufferfish reference, SF.  yea, not something you want to eat when prepared by the "trainee".  :lol:

 

Which brings to mind...why are doctors always practicing?  OK, never mind...I'm hijacking my own thread!  :lol:

 

 I'm not a reviewer and don't receive any unsolicited samples.  Have had a bottle explode on opening, have left a bottle on the counter and it exploded a couple days later....but French's mustard bottles with duct tape???  I think that one gets the DooDoo crown.  Or some other World's Worst title.  Wow.

 

 


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