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Chinenses are sick, desperately need help

darkb16a1

darkb16a1

My beautiful Chinense plants are showing various symptoms of issues, and I don't know what to do.

Once plants were put outside into a greenhouse, where they get plenty of light and high temps, they started to yellow, loose leaves, they drop flowers and have just a very few pods on the plants.

Grown in a standard soil but also hydroponically in coconut coir - both kinds of growing media showing the same symptoms.

Those in soil are watered with tap water only, as the soil was very strongly pre-fertilized by the vendor, and those in coconut coir are watered with hydroponic fertilizer ( 12-8-12 ) with some additional magnesium, calcium and iron in a form of a foliar fertilizer. pH 6,3.

I have some annuums outside the greenhouse and they grow beautifully, no problems. Just the damn chinenses in the greenhouse.

do you see the bottom of the plants? they lose big leaves, turn yellow and then fall off, plants now produce small leaves at the top only, the colour is somewhat pale :-(
1_cervenec_sklenik.jpg


Leaves are crawled inwards
1_cervenec_zkrouceny_list.jpg


Some plants are this pale :-( yellow sick look :-(
1_cervenec_zluty_list.jpg


Top of the Chinenses ( naga and TS) with small curled leaves, bottom leaves falling off
1_cervenec_opadane_listy.jpg


Some ( few) leaves have these strange spots
1_cervenec_nemoc_list.jpg


anyone ANY idea ? this is so flustrating, almost 100 plants inside, all nice and big at the beginning..
 
***DISCLAIMER - I am not a professional horticulturalist and my advice is based on my personal knowledge and experiences growing Capsicums***

Looks to me like you have a couple things going on there. (1) The plants with the yellow leaves look like they could be suffering from either a nitrogen or iron nutrient deficiency. This should be fairly easy to correct with the addition of some fertilizers. (2) The curled leaves could be caused by nutrient deficiency but could also be symptoms of an insect related problem. Check the plants very closely for any signs of aphids or other creepy crawlies. (3) The speckled leaf at the bottom could be a couple things as well. It looks like it could be the beginning stages of bacterial leafspot or even a virus. It looks like you could use some additional ventilation / air flow in your greenhouse. Too much humidity creates ideal conditions for bacteria, fungus and even virus born plant issues.

Keep calm and try to correct each issue in turn.
 
Yellowing is most frequently caused by overwatering - peppers like to be moist, but not wet. I generally wait until the leaves droop a bit before watering again, as you can't tell by the surface soil if they're too wet below or not. Your 3rd pic down looks like classic over-watering symptoms. Back off the watering, and the new growth should start to come in a richer green. Note that yellowed leaves from over-watering won't return to green, but the new growth will be fine.

The curled leaves could also come from fertilizer burn, and based on what you described, it sounds like that may be the case. If so, continuing to water with plain water, as you are already doing, will eventually dilute it down.

Sorry, not sure about the spotting.

I see you've got a drip system going - turn it off for a few days, then when you turn it back on, don't turn it up as high.
 
In regards to plants developing extra large leaves which turn yellow and fall off, I have had a similar issue with my chinense plants which I attributed to over-fertilizing. Once I cut back on the fertilizer schedule, things returned to normal.
 
darkb16a1 said:
My beautiful Chinense plants are showing various symptoms of issues, and I don't know what to do.

Once plants were put outside into a greenhouse, where they get plenty of light and high temps, they started to yellow, loose leaves, they drop flowers and have just a very few pods on the plants.

Grown in a standard soil but also hydroponically in coconut coir - both kinds of growing media showing the same symptoms.

Those in soil are watered with tap water only, as the soil was very strongly pre-fertilized by the vendor, and those in coconut coir are watered with hydroponic fertilizer ( 12-8-12 ) with some additional magnesium, calcium and iron in a form of a foliar fertilizer. pH 6,3.

I have some annuums outside the greenhouse and they grow beautifully, no problems. Just the damn chinenses in the greenhouse.

do you see the bottom of the plants? they lose big leaves, turn yellow and then fall off, plants now produce small leaves at the top only, the colour is somewhat pale :-(
1_cervenec_sklenik.jpg


Leaves are crawled inwards
1_cervenec_zkrouceny_list.jpg


Some plants are this pale :-( yellow sick look :-(
1_cervenec_zluty_list.jpg


Top of the Chinenses ( naga and TS) with small curled leaves, bottom leaves falling off
1_cervenec_opadane_listy.jpg


Some ( few) leaves have these strange spots
1_cervenec_nemoc_list.jpg


anyone ANY idea ? this is so flustrating, almost 100 plants inside, all nice and big at the beginning..
Click to expand...
loooks a little like T Mosaic pattern.
 
geeme said:
Yellowing is most frequently caused by overwatering - peppers like to be moist, but not wet. I generally wait until the leaves droop a bit before watering again, as you can't tell by the surface soil if they're too wet below or not. Your 3rd pic down looks like classic over-watering symptoms. Back off the watering, and the new growth should start to come in a richer green. Note that yellowed leaves from over-watering won't return to green, but the new growth will be fine.

The curled leaves could also come from fertilizer burn, and based on what you described, it sounds like that may be the case. If so, continuing to water with plain water, as you are already doing, will eventually dilute it down.

Sorry, not sure about the spotting.

I see you've got a drip system going - turn it off for a few days, then when you turn it back on, don't turn it up as high.
Click to expand...

+1

I would also like to add that it looks to me that they need to be potted up. I see too many plants growing in one small pot. I always go with one plant per (5 gal min pot size) pot.
 
[sub]looks like classic nitrogen defeciency to me. the plants potted in their own pots dont look like they are having the same issues. i would definitly repot into larger containers. 4 plants that size would deplete the nutrients pretty quick in that amount of soil.[/sub]

[sub]just my .02[/sub]
 
Too many plants in too small a pot, give them more fertilizer(s).

I don't know why people keep suggesting overwatering on so many topics. If you have good/well-draining soil it is very hard to overwater enough to matter.

I have a plant in too small a pot that I am watering several times a day! It looks great. All you should ever worry about with overwatering is that the soil surface dries out every now and then so you don't get persistent fungal growth on it.
 
Thanx everybody for the replies, I also suspected that this may be related either to over-watering or lack of nitrogen, but since I grow in a coconut coir mixed with 40% of perlite, I never had such issues before as this growing media provides plenty of oxygen and drains well.

Nevertheless, I checked the roots and found out that it really seems as the roots are not doing well, as most of the bottom roots did not have the tiny hair on it, and as far as I know, this means the grow media is too moist.

then, I looked at the smaller plants, and found out that the yellowing leaves mostly occurs only on the big plants, small are doing suspiciously well ! Only the big plants have the problem. So - could be that they really do not get enough nutes ?

Next steps - I'll try to water the plants less , but also provide some extra nitrogen to the big plants. So my drip system is off now, and I will increase nitrogen level on a couple of test plants to see how they respond.

Also, as a preventive step, I'll spray the plants with some fungicide tonight, and will add a 1/2 inch layer of pure Perlite on the bottom of two pots to see if it helps with drainage.

Regarding the pot size - roots seemed to have enough space - those grown in a coconut usually need about 50% of the space of soil based growing media.

Thanx all once again, I'll let everybody know what worked and what not !
 
OK, so I think something a lot people forget is that leaves do have a life span. The fact that you see most of the yellowing on the bottom biggest leaves of the biggest plants shows that it could be a sign of old age (the leaves). I have a couple of plants that have kept thier very first leaves throughout the season and eventually they started to yellow, deteriorate with holes all over, and eventually fall off.

I will agree that the smaller plants may be slightly overwatered, but probably need some nitrogen since all they have been getting is tap water. In containers nutrients get washed out so you may have to replace them every so often.

As for the spots on the leaf it could be bac spot starting to develop.

If there is not adequate airflow in your greenhouse already, it should be provided.



You could always give them some chicken soup! :D

Hope all is well.
 
Hi Everyone,

as promised I'm posting an update to the issue I've had.

Based on you advices, I added nitrogen fertilizer, improved drainage of the bottom of pots by adding some expanded clay to the bottom of each pot, and opened the door in the greenhouse more, to improve airflow.

results - so far it looks good ! Plants look healthier ( especially those in coconut coir that are on the right side of the greenhouse), and keep more flowers than before.

thanx everyone for the help so far !

9_cervence_po-zalivce_dusikem.jpg
 
darkb16a1 said:
Regarding the pot size - roots seemed to have enough space - those grown in a coconut usually need about 50% of the space of soil based growing media.
Click to expand...

That's only because each plant is stunted in size (width) and it's not just about root space it's also about sun catching area.

The result will be lots of energy spent on tall stems and overlapping leaves which create less energy, and lower fruit count. The ideal is to have the least # of plants possible in an area so that the canopy their leaves create just barely overlaps, that with the amount of light available, no energy is wasted on substantial leaf overlap or long thin stems trying to compete for light when that energy could be producing blooms and fruit.
 
Thanx very much for the advice Dave2000, due to space limitations I will not be able to change this in any dramatic way this season, but for the next year I will try to increase pot size and use only one plant per pot, and givbe them some space.
 
I got to agree with a couple of others that have said over watering, this could have caused the nutrient intake to slow and also the ph to change
perhaps stop or use less water for a few days or so and check your ph.........
also if your growing in coconut coir and its not good quality it could be a salt build up adding more fert will increase this prob,
perhaps a good flush with neutral ph water(no ferts) and leave them for a while
i.e don't water again till the leaves start drooping,

??????????????????????
 
JungleRain said:
I got to agree with a couple of others that have said over watering, this could have caused the nutrient intake to slow and also the ph to change
perhaps stop or use less water for a few days or so and check your ph.........
also if your growing in coconut coir and its not good quality it could be a salt build up adding more fert will increase this prob,
perhaps a good flush with neutral ph water(no ferts) and leave them for a while
i.e don't water again till the leaves start drooping,

??????????????????????
Click to expand...

i think he has turned his situation around according to the pics. 1 week is pretty quick change for a plant in salt lockup. i would agree with you on the watering frequency, let them tell you when they are thirsty and hungry. a good indication of too much N is a dull bluish color to the foliage.

good luck with your grow Darkb16a1 and keep us posted on the progress or these plants, could be a great learning experience for us
 
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