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shopping looking to buy LED light, opinions?

So, I'm looking for an affordable LED that can stand up to a 250w HPS but use less electricity. What lamps have been tested by you? Where is the best place to put my money?

http://www.sunshine-systems.com/GlowPanel-45-LED-Grow-Light-p/gp1-98567.htm

I saw this online, but find it hard to believe that 28w of anything can compete with my current lamp.

Help me out!
 
All other things being equal, count on 12-15 Watts of LEDs covering no more than 2.25 Sq Ft. That's a tad over 6 Watts per square foot, which is really efficient when you consider that HID growers typically use 25-40 W/SF. So on the low end, your 250W HPS covers ~ 10 SF reliably. To achieve the same coverage and roughly similar growth, you would need either 4 or 5 of these units at ~$50/piece (56 - 70 Watts):

http://www.amazon.co...=LED grow light

Bear in mind that not having *enough* heat can be a problem with LED's even in an insulated environment. One that's figured out, growing under LED's is easier with less to worry about (heat, ventilation, etc.) as long as you keep raising the light arrays since they need to be kept within a few inches of the plant tops.

I have not fruited superhots under LEDs but I'm going to this winter to see how it goes. For me they are a great way to propagate a lot of tissue clones or seedlings without stressing them out, yet obtaining fast growth. Helped a lot with my superhots and this has been a very good year for consistency and vigor.

Take care,
FarmerGuy

0323122109.jpg
 
Is it possible to fruit superhots (or any chile) under LED lights at all? Maybe in combination with sunlight from the window during the shorter winter-days?

Anyone tried? :-)
 
As with ANY Light source you have to know how to use them.
YES.any PEPPER will grow and put out pods under LEDS.
Given the Lumens are right.
Peppers don't care if they have high red to bud.
BUT red and or blue do turn on genes in pepper plants to grow a tall plant(Blue) or a short stocky plant(red).
They do need plant usable wave lengths in enough lumens to grow though.
Can't grow a plant in 2 Lumens of totally plant usable light.

Hard part about LEDs is all the B.S. the vendors are putting out to sell their product.
Add to that all the crap about needing certain wave lengths from the pot farmer sites.

In general,with any light source you need to know how to use it ,that sources limitations(a mans gotta know his limitations-Dirty Harry)and try to get as close as possible to being able to put out as many wave lengths , that are plant usable as you can.
Halides,Fluoros LEDs etc. CAN all work great if used the way they need to be used to get the best results from that particular source of PLANT USABLE LIGHT.
Toss in the cost of setup and use and decide from there.

I make my own LED panels.
Couldn't find ANY panels sold commercially that were either affordable or weren't snake oil sold at high prices with tons of out of context crap to Dazzle you with Brilliance or baffle you with B.S.
Cheap ones are crap,either over driven LEDS that burn out or over priced ones that the vendor miss represents selected data,,,
Kinda like buying that new super Duper hot that's supposed to blow the doors off any pepper out there...
My -Company name- will make dead plants fruit and acres of HERB grow in a 5 gal. bucket for a piddley gazillion $ per panel,
trust me... :)
Cheep ones are said to be better than halides-they forgot to tell you they aren't interchangable.
Maybe the panel MIGHT put out more Lumens in plant usable light-per watt or whatever but they aren't comparing them to real life use.
A halide might cover 4 sq. ft at X lumens,The LED can put out the same or more Lumens in ONLY plant usable light at the same or at a lesser cost to run but depending on the panels make up it might only cover 2 sq. ft or less that the plant needs.
I don't think,as most people like to say-LED Tech isn't here yet.
You need to treat them as LEDS,not fluoros or halides.
Know the LED you are using and how you can use it in the real world.
I use mine to get monster starter plants and as a light source for getting isolated seeds.
No,I wouldn't use them in a greenhouse unless I had a rich person to pay the initial start up bills.
I do prefere them as a light source for how I need/use them.
But then again I make my own to suit my growing needs.
 
Plants use basically 425nm - 475nm Blue and 620nm - 680nm red +/-.
About the same wave lengths we can see - visible light.
It is debatable whether all plants need specific wave lengths that other ones don't need as much of or in the same ratios and wave lengths.

Some plants like or might need different wave lengths than others.
Pubes seem to like more of the higher red than other Peppers.
Might be due to the place they originally are native to...growing conditions etc.
What they adapted to in nature...
 
Thanks for the answer... Seems like I just need to give it a try... I got some 18W bulbs with 9 diodes each (7 red 660nm and 2 blue 460nm).. Did make some great starters, but didnt flower because I ripped of the buds while still under the bulbs... I will try to set fruit under the bulbs this winter... :-)
 
As to personally tested;

Currently running a solar flare 200 watt veg master. I really like this one. All American made with 5 watt LEDs.
9ff9c6458d988c05503f221ee19611f6.jpg


Also running a Advance LEDs Diamond series, very cool running lamp. Switches from veg to clone and flower mode. Has 3 watt LEDs and is the 200 watt model.
0806529a.jpg


And finally there's the Kessil, 2 blue 150 series and one 350 deep purple (in the middle).
2dcd7f43db8c3516193bb55293f3959e.jpg


Like smoke master stated in regards to the nm scale I don't believe the 475 to 620 range is worth paying for. IE yellow orange and excessive greens.

Low operating cost with out extreme heat has allowed me to expand my grow, time will tell if I get 6+ years out of them.
 
Now that I think more about it I did have flowers at some of the faster annuums under those bulbs early this spring... But if they where going to set fruits also is the big question? - I took them to the livingroom then...
 
Costeve, what's the actual power draw on those bad boys? I've heard the wattage rating is their full potential, but they rarely draw that much.
 
Don't go buy watts when buying an LED panel,in general.
I'd check out the wave lengths,Lumens( Lumens/Watts)and coverage.
Most commercial panels cover, say they cover 9 or so sq. Ft.(3X3).

Watts is tricky.
They use watts because old incandescent bulbs ALWAYS put out X amount of Lumens per watt.
100 watt bulbs ALWAYS put out about 1700 Lumens.
So Watts WAS a good unit of measure for them.
Then they started with selling bulbs that used 100 watts but put out more lumens or put out the same lumens using less watts.

But with LEDS especially , that stuff means only how fast your meter spins.
I can get 1000 Lumens to a little under 2000 lumens from a 144 watt power supply depending on the LEDS I use.

I can't see how they can justify comparing watts as a unit of measure to say one panel is better or worse than another or comparing light sources to each other based on how fast your meter spins.
LEDs also vary in angle.
Think spot lights.
If you have a 1000 Lumen light with a 40 degree angle you'll get more light on the same area as a 120 degree angled one of the same lumen at the same distance away.
A lesser angled LED from farther away would cover more area than a higher angled with the same amount of Lumens.

I might not have explained it right for everyone but the basics are there.

I see lots of guys saying higher watt LEDS put out better Lumens than lower watt ones.
I don't get it.
Lumens are Lumens.If an LED puts out x amount of lumens that is what it puts out.
Different LEDS DO put out different percentages of the wave length they are rated to put out(dominant wave length) but all put out over 50% of their rated wave length.
LEDs change from LED to LED even in the same lot.So all the stuff about higher watt LEDS is only usefull in lab conditions where you can test each LED at specific voltages and Mili amps.
Since all LEDS are rated per Lot,Like finding the WOLDS HOTTEST pepper,everything is debatable.
They take the highest rated lumen led in the highest watt to use the data to sell their product.
Most so called data sheets are testing the LED at as high a pulse as they can use to get the highest Lumens in that wave length to sell their product.

Since plants use basically VISIBLE light I also don't see why they say LEDS can't be measure with a regular light meter in Lumens.
I don't care about the wave lengths that aren't visible light,plants don't use them or use them in such small amounts it doesn't matter in the long run.

I was impressed by one of the commercial LED panels posted above.
A very reasonably priced one in basically the wave lengths plants use.
Yes,you can make one for less but labor etc. probably equals out.

One of the few people I've seen post about commercial LED panels that are affordable and not just repeating sales stuff or trying to impress people with stuff that the average person can't control or would even need to deal with.

I'm no where near being an expert but DO know what I've been playing with for several years.
I don't have all the do dads some people have access to but my plants tell me what I need to know for the most part.

Actually LED panels are a different animal.
You have to forget about all the other light sources.
Watts means nothing in general unless you have the limens and wave lengths to go with it.
Since you are giving your plants specific wave lengths (50%+ of the wave length the LED puts out) you can't compare the Lumens per Sq. Ft. that other light sources need to put out.
With fluoros a rule of thumb was 2500 lumens at pot level for my shelves or I got some leggy plants(some didn't need that much,others needed more).
With LEDS in the right wave lengths 2000 Lumens at pot level gets a lot of purple leaves and sunburned at 18 hr days and some at 12 hr days.
Also I find LED plants don't need hardening off for sun scald.They do need to develop roots though in hot temps.
As stated above,I think if you cover as many wave lengths as you can in the red and blues as I posted above you'll probably be OK.
A lot of the other minor wave lengths plants don't need are there from the LEDs but are just not in as high amounts.

The sun puts out every wave length any plant uses so I like the cheap LEDs from China.
I know they put out 50%+ of the light they are rated at but also,in lesser amounts put out all the other wave lengths in the ballpark that my plants need/use.
I guess it's a matter of if you want to read a bunch of sales stuff or if you actually tried stuff out and your plants told you what works for them.
I only grow non bell peppers nothing else.
What works for my plants might not work on your weeds-non chile plants. :)

I started messing with 5mm LEDS.Not good for sprouting plants past a certain stage-lumens suck.
Less than 125 , 20,000MCD on 3X4 inch panels are a waste in general as far as total light goes.
But they are great to start early branching vetically under a horizontal star or 10mm panel.

They are great for veticle lighting for branching out your sprouts from day 1.

Like I said,you gotta know how to use every light source to get the most out of what you are using.
People thaught I spent way too much over the years making my panels.
I screwed up here and there but all it takes is a different resistor or whatever.
The Chinese LEDS have lasted about 4 seasons so far.They run 12-18 hours a day 365 days.
My plants like them.
Nothing I bought over the last 4 years has gone to waste.
I use everything I've made according to how I've learned to use them.
Too bad all LEDs don't come in ALL the wave lengths 5mm do.
5mm have the most wave lengths in general but they lack Lumens.

Boils down to what your wallet can accord and what you use ANY light source for or expect to use it for.

Costeve,great post for comparison of the commercial stuff if you google the panels you posted above.
 
In regards to watts being useful only to know how fast your meter is spinning, that is my exact concern. I want a lower watt light, to save on electricity, but want performance that can stand up to the 250hps.

If I was even remotely confident I could pull it off, I would build my own panel. But I know for site I'd screw it up.

Smokemaster, do you have any how to's on building?
 
Always do the math.
Data sheets are NOT the way to run your LEDs in general.IF you run them at the voltages and ma. on most data sheets you'll be buying new LEDs soon because you let the smoke out of the ones you just fried.
Example:

[background=transparent]Descriptions:[/background]
[background=transparent]1 watt LEDS[/background]
[background=transparent]Lens Colour :Water Clear[/background]
[background=transparent]Emitting Colour:Red Colour[/background]
[background=transparent]Intensity Type:60~70Lm[/background]
[background=transparent]Viewing Angle:120°[/background]
[background=transparent]Forward Voltage :2.5V~2.9V[/background]
[background=transparent]Forward Current:300mA[/background]
[background=transparent]Wavelength :625nm[/background]




Voltage times amps = watts.

2.5 x .300 = .75 watts
2.6 X .300 = .78W
2.7 x .300 = .80w
2.8 x .300 = .84w
2.9 x .300 = .87

Probably safe voltages-this data sheet seems OK(above).

[background=transparent]Description[/background][background=transparent] [/background][background=transparent]Quantity:[/background][background=transparent] 10 Pcs[/background]
[background=transparent]Condition:[/background][background=transparent] Brand New[/background]
[background=transparent]Spec:[/background]
[background=transparent]- 440nm high power LED lamp[/background]
[background=transparent]- 1 W, blue color[/background]
[background=transparent]- forward V: 3.2V(min), 3.6V(typ), 3.8V(max), forward Current: 350mA[/background]
[background=transparent]- peak wavelength: 440nm(min), 445(typ), 450(max)[/background]
[background=transparent]Part. No.: [/background][background=transparent]LED1W440[/background][background=transparent].[/background][background=transparent] [/background]
[background=transparent]Quantity:[/background][background=transparent] 10 Pcs[/background]
[background=transparent]Condition:[/background][background=transparent] Brand New[/background]
[background=transparent]Spec:[/background]
[background=transparent]- 440nm high power LED lamp[/background]
[background=transparent]- 1 W, blue color[/background]
[background=transparent]- forward V: 3.2V(min), 3.6V(typ), 3.8V(max), forward Current: 350mA[/background]
[background=transparent]- peak wavelength: 440nm(min), 445(typ), 450(max)[/background]
[background=transparent]Part. No.:[/background][background=transparent] [/background][background=transparent]LED1W440[/background][background=transparent].[/background][background=transparent] [/background]




,350 x 3.2 = 1.12w

Don't need to go any higher in voltage.You already went over 1 watt.
Either go with a lower voltage or MA. or both.Gotta play with them.Keep them bright and take whatever wave length they end up putting out.
I go with lower voltages since the wave length will still probably be in the plant usable ballpark.

Voltage along with the make up of the LED determins wave length.MA. determins Lumens.

In general I'd go with slightly lower voltages and MA. with the Blue LEDS.
It seems the data sheets for 1 watt LEDS are usually off more so than 3 watt+
ones for some reason.
You can pulse LEDS at higher voltages and MA. to get higher Lumens and different wave lengths(to a certain point) without letting the smoke out.So my guess is they pulse them for the test for sales purposes to get higher readings...
BUT plants don't see pulsed light.
A chemical reaction takes place when a plant sees certain wave lengths,from what I understand ,pulsed light doesn't give the plant enough time to use it.It's supposed to be the same as no light to a plant.

Another thing to consider is that plants need less lumens from LED light,since it's generally in the plant usable wave lengths than you need with other light sources.

Just a made up example:

Say your OTHER light source puts out a gazillion Lumens of light.BUT only 60% - 75% of that light is plant usable (see wave lengths in above posts).
An LEDS puts out mostly wave lengths in what it's rated at(plant usable) and a few bands above and below the rated wave lengths,which is still mostly plant usable.

So in general,if both light sources put out a gazillion lumens,you are getting a lot more plant usable light from the LEDS than the other light source in lumens.
IF a plant NEEDS a gazillion Lumens of plant usable light the other light source might need a gazillion and 1/2 lumens to put out the same amount of plant usable lumens.

I find what one of the hardest things to do with different LEDS is find the sweet spot as far as how far away to put your panel from the plant.
LEDS are mini spot lights,depending on beam angle and Lumens you have to find the spot where your panels LEDs overlap to get the most Lumens per sq. whatever.
I have panels that work best at 20 in. away and others (wide angle LEDs) that need to be used like Fluoros-close up.

Wide angle = close up,tighter angle = farther away.

Another thing I see is that LEDs can't be measured with a regular light meter.
I call BS to that since plants use mostly visible light.Same wave lengths you can see...

I couldn't care less about the lumens of non visible light.
My plants can't or don't use it so measuring it is a waste unless you think for some reason (sales?) you want to include those lumens in your data sheet about the panel.
All I need to know to grow my peppers is what wave lengths of plant usable light my LEDS put out.
Screw adding orange,green etc.
If you use a prism or CD you can see that your LEDs put out lesser amounts of a bunch of other colors,depending on the LEDs quality ,the more or less of these wave lengths you'll get.
It's like micro nutes.You need them but only in very small amounts...

I LIKE cheap LEDS just because they are probably MORE off in wave lengths.
The sun puts out every wave length plants use.
I want to imitate Sunlight as close as I can in the plant usable wave lengths.

I like to buy as many different lots of LEDS from different manufacturers in plant usable wave lengths as possible as I can(at the right price).
I think I get more of the IN THE BALLPARK wave lengths in my panels that way.

White LEDS are a mix of red,Blue and green BUT in wave lengths that aren't high enough in plant usable wave lengths to mess with them as far as my experiments have shown.
Too bad because white LEDS come in higher Lumens and are cheaper in general.Especially when compared to the higher red LED cost in low Lumens.
BUT that has been changing all the time...

I guess thats about it.
I won't give you/anyone my LED sources.
I buy in quantity and it took years to establish my relationship with these guys.
I once gave a person my vendors name and the price I got (on 1000+) LEDS.
They couldn't get my price and hassled the vendor to try and get my price.
The vendor got pissed and raised his price. Never again.
Took me 2 years to find the same price from other vendors...

IF anyone has a supplier for drivers that will run 50 LEDS at about 2.5 volts , 20ma-350ma. I'd like to know the company-not your price.
Most driver in that MA. will only drive a string of LEDs.
I have 20+ star panels and 15+ 10mm panels I don't want to run on 35 different power cords.

I'm tired of dealing with cooling off LM317's and resistors.
I'd like to just buy a driver instead of making them myself.
I'm also looking for a way to maybe make buck puck type drivers that might run 25 or so LEDs instead of only a couple.
Looking for a better way to run my LEDS...Daisey chain a couple panels together so I have 1 cord for a shelf...
 
Man, I am trying so hard to get this, but he'll it does confuse me.

Say I want to string 20 LEDs together. They're rated at 3.2-3.8v, .700mA(these are what I'm seeing on eBay). How do I figure out what kind of driver to use? Also, do you string them in series, or parallel?

I watched a video of a build online, but there was no commentary explaining the science of the process, so I see how it's put together, but that's about it.

I know I'm asking a lot of questions, but I really appreciate the help you're trying to give me. It's just taking some time to grasp it.
 
I assume you are talking about 3watt LEDs

Run them in series.
I don't know why but parallel isn't good...probably easier to let the magic smoke out or something.

.700ma X 3.2v = 2.24w
.700ma x 3.6v = 2.52w
.700ma x 3.8n = 2.66w

all under 3 watts.good.

If a driver is 30 volts at .700ma you can run 10 LEDS at 3 volts , .700ma.
The whole string uses .700ma.
60 volts at .700ma would be 20 LEDS.


You basically add up the volts you want each LED to run on.and don't go over the ma. or voltage in the string.
If you had a 1.4 amp. driver at 30 volts you can run 2 strings of 10 LEDS...but if 1 string/LEDS fries you might cook the second string.

Voltage is never ending.You can run as many 30v strings as you want on the driver but can't go over the ma or amp. output.
No matter how many .700ma LEDS are in a string ,the string uses .700ma total.
1.4 amps will run 2 strings at .700ma. etc.

You control the voltage each LED gets by the # of LEDs in the string.

There is another post here where I posted links to calculators for Parallel array wizard , resistor color code , mcd to lumens and how too.
I lost that hard drive.google parallel array wizard.you'll have to find the other links.

http://led.linear1.org/led.wiz/

check out the links above.LED basics etc.
 
I've been keeping an eye on LED grow lights for a while - there appear to be some very viable units on the market that do seem to be an improvement on HID's. But what about the price / performance ratio?

From what I can tell, the upfront cost of LED units is so high you'd be better off buying extra HID units (and associated cooling equipment) and paying for the additional electricity, even over the several-year life of LED's.

Has anyone run some actual numbers to support or refute this? What would the break-even price need to be?
 
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