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led diy growlight grow light

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#1 slashroot

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 11:23 AM

Stats of both panels combined:

2x 3w 515-530nm 120 Lumens
19x 3w 655-660nm 60 Lumens
19x 3w 620-630nm 80 Lumens
4x 3w 465-470nm 40 Lumens
4x 3w 450-455nm 45 Lumens
2x 3w 6000-6500K 220 Lumens

5x (7-12) x 3w LED Drivers
50x 60 degree lenses

+ All other accessories

Total cost 229 USD


Everything from the light was bought from taobao . com when I was in China. Spent about two days putting them together. Posting just in case this could be useful information for others doing DIY LED lights. If you have any questions just ask :)

Here's some pictures:

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Just my overwintered plants, they have not been grown under these lights!

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Edited by slashroot, 30 December 2012 - 12:01 PM.


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#2 tylerdodd25_92

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 12:10 PM

nice!

What is a weed? A plant whose virtues have never been discovered -Ralph Waldo Emerson


#3 slashroot

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 12:11 PM

nice!


Thanks, hopefully they're not just nice to look at but can grow some good plants hehe

#4 slpknt10l03

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 12:22 PM

Where did you find that aluminum?
Redditors, visit /r/HotPeppers

#5 slashroot

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 12:25 PM

Where did you find that aluminum?


The heatsink is from taobao.com. It would be hard to acquire that outside China, dunno if those heatsinks are exported to the west. Can always find others though, like from rapidled.

#6 Jamison

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 01:32 PM

Wow. Thats quite the build!

#7 idosimon

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 02:41 AM

Nice! It seems that you have most of the spectrum in there, something which I've been unable to find in any commercial lights!

Be sure to visit my youtube channel, HUUUYpeppers! I am currently growing an indoor mako kokoo pepper.


#8 slashroot

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 03:19 AM

Nice! It seems that you have most of the spectrum in there, something which I've been unable to find in any commercial lights!


515-530nm is suppose to get the plant to absorb the other spectrum more efficiently, and allows the light to penetrate deeper down to the lower limbs. Some kind of trigger effect. That's why I added one green at each panel, should be plenty enough.

The 6000-6500K is to cover all other wavelengths outside the Red and Blue.

From reading a lot of information on the net I decided to put more Red than Blue because that's what seemed to work best for other people.

#9 idosimon

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 03:30 AM

515-530nm is suppose to get the plant to absorb the other spectrum more efficiently, and allows the light to penetrate deeper down to the lower limbs. Some kind of trigger effect. That's why I added one green at each panel, should be plenty enough.

The 6000-6500K is to cover all other wavelengths outside the Red and Blue.

From reading a lot of information on the net I decided to put more Red than Blue because that's what seemed to work best for other people.


Yup, green/yellow light is still readily absorbed by the plant (although not as much as other frequencies). I've been in many arguments over this, and its nice to see other people who are well educated in light!

Be sure to visit my youtube channel, HUUUYpeppers! I am currently growing an indoor mako kokoo pepper.


#10 smokemaster

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 04:31 AM

Wouldn't your fan be more efficient if you closed up the back so the air flow was forced to come from the ends through all the cooling fins?
make a box that just covers the back of the heat sink.All air would have to come from the ends through all the fins and out the fan.
3 watt LEDS do need cooling and I'd think the farther away from the fan your LEDS are,the way your setup is , the hotter they would be.
Maybe your LEDS are far enough apart so the metal dissipates the heat enough,I don't know.
When I played with 3watt LEDS they needed cooling fans even with individual heat sinks.
The ones I played with were 80-120lm.
Maybe they get hotter than your 40 - 80 lumen LEDS that make up most of your panels.

To me,when I checked out most of the red and blue LEDS with a CD.All had various degrees of green and yellow light made by them.
I saw no difference when I put yellow (580-590mn) or white (3500K and 6500K) in my panels.
I speculated that maybe the LEDS already put enough of those wave lengths out and since they aren't needed in as high percentages as the reds and blue wave lengths that I didn't need to put in separate LEDs in those extra wave lengths.

I'm eventually going to make a spectrometer that will show me exactly what my panels put out.

http://publiclaborat...er-construction

It's suposed to show what nm and what percentage of each...assuming it's accurate...

Until then I really don't know what any LED really puts out in any wave lengths.
I'd assume the cheaper chinese LEDs might be made with lower standards and probably put out more stray wave lengths than an LED made under stricter manufacturing standards.
To me that is a good thing.
My goal is to cover every wave length I can get out of my LEDs.
The more stray wave lengths,the closer they MIGHT be to the wave lengths from the sun.
As long as my 660nm or whatever wave length the LED is rated at is 50%+ I'm happy.
As I said,I won't know what the LEDS actually put out until I can test them with a spectrometer...
White LEDS aren't white,they are red,blue and green or yellow and blue combined and only look white.

http://www.lrc.rpi.e.../whiteLight.asp

So I might be right about not needing extra white and yellow IF my LEDs are putting those wave lengths out-in enough amounts already.IN the right wave lengths and total lumens plants can use.

Edited by smokemaster, 31 December 2012 - 05:00 AM.


#11 slashroot

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 06:29 AM

Wouldn't your fan be more efficient if you closed up the back so the air flow was forced to come from the ends through all the cooling fins?
make a box that just covers the back of the heat sink.All air would have to come from the ends through all the fins and out the fan.
3 watt LEDS do need cooling and I'd think the farther away from the fan your LEDS are,the way your setup is , the hotter they would be.
Maybe your LEDS are far enough apart so the metal dissipates the heat enough,I don't know.
When I played with 3watt LEDS they needed cooling fans even with individual heat sinks.
The ones I played with were 80-120lm.
Maybe they get hotter than your 40 - 80 lumen LEDS that make up most of your panels.

To me,when I checked out most of the red and blue LEDS with a CD.All had various degrees of green and yellow light made by them.
I saw no difference when I put yellow (580-590mn) or white (3500K and 6500K) in my panels.
I speculated that maybe the LEDS already put enough of those wave lengths out and since they aren't needed in as high percentages as the reds and blue wave lengths that I didn't need to put in separate LEDs in those extra wave lengths.

I'm eventually going to make a spectrometer that will show me exactly what my panels put out.

http://publiclaborat...er-construction

It's suposed to show what nm and what percentage of each...assuming it's accurate...

Until then I really don't know what any LED really puts out in any wave lengths.
I'd assume the cheaper chinese LEDs might be made with lower standards and probably put out more stray wave lengths than an LED made under stricter manufacturing standards.
To me that is a good thing.
My goal is to cover every wave length I can get out of my LEDs.
The more stray wave lengths,the closer they MIGHT be to the wave lengths from the sun.
As long as my 660nm or whatever wave length the LED is rated at is 50%+ I'm happy.
As I said,I won't know what the LEDS actually put out until I can test them with a spectrometer...
White LEDS aren't white,they are red,blue and green or yellow and blue combined and only look white.

http://www.lrc.rpi.e.../whiteLight.asp

So I might be right about not needing extra white and yellow IF my LEDs are putting those wave lengths out-in enough amounts already.IN the right wave lengths and total lumens plants can use.


You are definitely right, the cooling would be more efficient if I had some kind of panel on the back. I have been through that though but don't have the materials to make it now, could always change it in the future. When running the panels for hours it's still very cool to the touch, not hot at all. Even at warm room temperature of around 78f. These heatsinks seem to work really great for me, the LEDs have pretty decent space between them too. The fans are 220-240v 120mm not sure about the rpm but they push a lot of air at a low noise level.

Never thought that a 600nm chip for example put out many other different wavelengths. That's sure new information for me.

Would be really awesome if you create a spectrometer, would love to see what the different diodes put out in wavelengths!

I'll be following your spectrometer thread :)

#12 smokemaster

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 07:30 AM

For a ball park idea about what your LEDs put out color wise. check out one of these CD spectrometers that are basically a prism.

https://pantherfile....www/specweb.htm

I made this one and it's cool to play with.
It doesn't show anything but the rings of color your light source puts out.
You can see how thick each color is and somewhat compare different light sources by how thick the different bands are.
The other one is supposed to show more info about the wave lengths etc.

LEDS are rated for the dominant color only.
Depending on how the LED was made can change the percentage of the wave length an LED puts out of the dominant wave length.
These percentages can vary from lot to lot and LED to LED.
Higher quality ,U.S. made LEDs are said to be more uniform than the Chinese ones - at least that is the common opinion I see posted very often.
Until I actually get a spectrometer I won't know for sure.

They /LEDs do put out lesser amounts of other colors.
It depends on the phosphorous etc. the LED is made with.Imperfections etc in the coating is said to change the LEDs wave length output too.

Color is controlled by both voltage and what the LED is made of.
Brightness is controled by MA/current.

I have a wireless sugar cube camera for RC flying toys that I'm going to try using for my spectromiter.
That way I can take the light collecting part anywhere and the receiver will be plugged into my computer,TV or?
I don't have a smart phone but that one looks interesting.
It's plans are in the update links on the computer spectrometer page I linked to.

The original post I made:

http://thehotpepper....4-spectrometer/

Edited by smokemaster, 31 December 2012 - 08:05 AM.


#13 idosimon

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 11:20 AM

The problem with using cheap or DIY spectrometers is that they are only accurate for white light. To get accurate readings for LEDs, you need to buy $800+ spectrometers or quantum light sensors.

Also, keep in mind that the colors you see and the wavelength outputted can be very different.

Be sure to visit my youtube channel, HUUUYpeppers! I am currently growing an indoor mako kokoo pepper.


#14 smokemaster

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 03:45 PM

Did you go to the DIY link?

I think you might be wrong about the white light thing.

You have to take off the infa red filter on a web cam IF you want to read infa red wave lengths.So it must be able to read at least some red wave lengths below infa red.

It doesn't make sense to me what you say about reading wave lengths that only come from white light.
Especially since with Fluoros and other light sources the white light they produce is made from other wave lengths that are mixed to look white...

It seems to me if for example 660nm is present,no matter what the source is.It should be able to read it.

I'm sure a REAL Lab spectrometer is more accurate etc.

But in general,some one like me that uses LEDs for growing plants pretty much just needs to know if 660nm is 657nm - 663nm and not 615nm , 600nm or?

I think the only problem is that the DIY stuffs accuracy would depend on the camera you use.

I'd think if you made the smart phone version with a phone that takes lousy pics you would get inaccurate readings as compared to a higher quality camera.

It says the DIY spectrometer is accurate to 3nm.

The CD is supposed to break up the light and the camera turns the picture it sees into info about specific wave lengths it reads and puts in on your computer in a graph.
I don't think it matters what the person sees or doesn't see.
Just what the camera sees from the rainbow the cd made.

As I said,I think the accuracy of the DIY spectrometer would depend on the camera you use.Not the light source.
Also I'm sure a dirty CD or scatched one would probably mess with accuracy too.
Either way.I'd think the DIY spectrometer will still get you into the ballpark as far as wave lengths goes of your grow light/panel.

I think anything that gives the DIYer more info about their setup is good.

I also think the stuff people post about light meters being inaccurate whith reading LEDS is also BS.
They say the regular light meter only reads visible to the eye wave lengths,not the specific wave lengths plants use that is put out by specific LEDS...That is also generally the same wave lengths we see - 440nm -660nm +/-.
If I was looking for infa red and or ultra violet they might be right.

I see way too much stuff on the internet that when I've tried it out wasn't or was all it's cracked up to be.

A lot of it is stuff cherry picked,out of contexed stuff that ends up being something posted to impress,sell a product or whatever.

Not all people read on the net is true - there is a TON of "If you can't dazzle them with brilliance , Baffle them with B.S.".

You might be right and know what you are talking about.
I don't know until I build one of these and see it tells me all my LEDS are purple poka dotted or not putting out any wave lengths of light. :(

This spectrometer is basically free for me to make.

I already have the parts and a couple cameras to play with for comparison.
Besides ,I have a lot of time on my hands at work to play with making and playing with it.
I don't see a down side in general.
If nothing else,I might learn something new...

Edited by smokemaster, 31 December 2012 - 03:49 PM.


#15 idosimon

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 04:54 PM

Its not that telling which wavelength is which is the inaccurate part, but its the part with absorption. If you want to measure how much light your plants are absorbing, you need a quantum light meter that can be tailored to light sources other than white.

If you just want to know the nm range of the leds, I think you should be fine with the DIY contraption (however, be careful of extraneous sources of error)

Be sure to visit my youtube channel, HUUUYpeppers! I am currently growing an indoor mako kokoo pepper.


#16 smokemaster

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 07:35 PM

All I want to know in general is IF my Chinese LEDS are what they are rated at and an added + would be what percentages of the different wave lengths my panels put out.

I have a suspicion that a LOT of the chinese LEDS are really the same LED just run at different volts and current for testing so they can sell the same LED under different outputs on the data sheets.

My plants already told me that they like my 1 watt LED panels.
They work great for the way "I" need them to work,the way "I" use them etc.

Might not work for you and your grow but that isn't my problem...I'm not trying to use them like halides or whatever.
I don't try to use a flash light to light up a stadium.

I'd use the spectrometer to add or get rid of the LEDS that put out lesser amounts of the wave lengths I do or don't want in my panels.
If some of my blue or red LEDS end up being in a wave length I don't think I need or if ,for example ,the 440nm LEDS are really 470nm.
I'd be able to swap out some of the 470nm LEDS for the ones that tested as 440nm.

Assuming I use a camera that is accurate,and I get good readings as advertised...

I see this spectrometer as a very useful tool in balancing out the wave lengths my panels put out.
IF IT REALLY WORKS.

Like I said in my post in Sept.,it might be cool to take with you ((using a Lap top computer) to the hydro shop to compare some of the more expensive grow lights against each other.

Your post was a blanket statement that insinuated that the DIY spectrometer was a waste of time-wouldn't work except if the light source was white.

Since super accurate Lab equipment isn't part of a chile growers everyday tools for growing their plants.

IF this DIY toy really works,it is affordable and something that is of value for what it is.

I assume you are just trying to dazzle us with brilliance. (couldn't resist ) LOL

I never posted about using this toy for anything other than possibly checking out LED wave lengths and the possible percentages any LED or panel might be putting out.

Light absorption,wave lengths used by plants can be found on the net.

If your LEDS are putting out the wrong wave lengths you are screwed anyway.

IF you can find out what wave lengths plants use ,in what percentages then you could worry about absorption.

For instance I've found Manzanos LOVE a lot more high red light than other chiles.
My experience so far has been different plant varieties like different mixes of light.
That is why I try to use as many wave lengths in 430nm - 475nm aned 620nm - 675nm as I can in my panels.

Absorption ,to me is a totally different subject.

Seems like you can figure out absorption after you find out the wave lengths and percentage of each first.
Then probably Figure out the lumens,par or whatever of each wave length and go from there.


I get past all the supposed light penetration problems by using both vertical and horizontal panels and use a LOT more Lumens than most commercial panels put out(in general).

I'm not trying to convert anyone.
Just trying to spread around some stuff I find of interest.

Might not be some peoples cup of tea,but I do see this as a possible tool of use to the same people who might be interested in indoor light sources outputs and like to play with new toys.

I won't know until I make this toy if it even works close to accurately.
If it says my blue LEDS are orange I'll post that this toy doesn't work with the parts I used to make it.
If it somewhat matches the data sheets for the LEDS I am using.Then it's safe to say it works or is at least in the ball prk.
Either way it can possibly get me closer to knowing what my panels put out as far as wave lengths goes.

But sometimes the ride is as cool as the destination.
A great ride to a cool destination is the best.

I remember when it was KNOWN FACT that plants under Fluoros and LEDS will not mature or set pods under their light.
My plants didn't get the memo and fruit anyway...

But I'm a try it out type grower.
I like to play with the stuff that interests me.
NOTHING I've ever made goes to waste.If something didn't work it gets used for something else.

For me book learnin was never as much fun as hands on.


As far as $ goes.
LEDS are cheap compared to what I spent on my boat and all the fishing tackle that weighs almost enough to sink her every time I go fishing...
The things ya gotta do to have fun. :)

Edited by smokemaster, 31 December 2012 - 08:01 PM.


#17 idosimon

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 09:32 PM

I'm not trying to discredit LEDs or say that you shouldn't build your DIY spectrometer. I'm not trying to dazzle anyone with brilliance either, all I'm trying to do is to keep a realistic mindset.

If you build an LED panel and expect it to outperform a HID light (with today's technology), then you are simply mistaken. Most commercial LED panels advertise this, and are only really good for vegetative states.

I'm not trying to prevent anyone from playing around with LEDs either - that's the only way that we can advance the technology (along with good research).

LEDs can be useful in today's growing (with photomorphology, such as blasting the stems with blue light in order to prevent more auxins). But I'm saying not to expect LEDs to work wonderfully and to outperform HID lights by themselves.

I'm just trying to clear up some misinformation about LEDs (of which there is A LOT of) and to keep a realistic perspective on the whole situation.

You can go ahead and build your DIY spectrometer, I'm not saying you shouldn't. I'm just giving reasons to which why it may not work or give false statements. Just take what it says with a grain of salt and don't make absolutes based on it.

Be sure to visit my youtube channel, HUUUYpeppers! I am currently growing an indoor mako kokoo pepper.


#18 kev82

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 10:32 AM

Looks good. I would have gone with a different distribution of the blues (too clustered, imho) and dropped the lenses on the greens (since you want it to reach as wide as possible).

Keep up the good work :)

#19 slashroot

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 12:05 PM

Looks good. I would have gone with a different distribution of the blues (too clustered, imho) and dropped the lenses on the greens (since you want it to reach as wide as possible).

Keep up the good work :)


Ideas are very welcome and not having a lens on the green is logical, good think they are not permanent. I can take the lens off easily and do changes whenever I would like to. I'm not sure if I understood you about the blues being too clustered?

You would space the blue differently on the panels or is it the ratio, more blues? This includes both panels or just one of them?

From what I can see you have your own homemade LED lights? I'd love if you'd like to share pictures and information about them here :)

Edited by slashroot, 02 January 2013 - 12:07 PM.


#20 bluemeanietsi

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 03:07 PM

Interestingly enough all mine are growing towards the blue LEDs.





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