Jump to content

  •  


The 10th Annual Hot Pepper Awards Winners Announced!

Photo

Barrel Aged Hot Sauce

Barrel Aged Cayanne Scotch Bonnet American Oak Ferment Fermentation

  • Please log in to reply
57 replies to this topic

#1 SimonDouglas87

SimonDouglas87

    Mild

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 24 posts
  • Location:Edinburgh, Scotland

Posted 04 April 2014 - 05:07 PM

Just to start off i'd like to say how awesome this forum is, i've gathered some really great information and im very impressed at how knowledgable and helpful everyone is! Hopefully in time to come I can do my bit and impart a little wisdom of my own!   The reason I have started this thread is to tell you a little bit about my first hot sauce, and hopefully gather a little advice on the way!   Ok, so the hot sauce has begun it's fermentation, I currently have Cayanne peppers and Scotch Bonnets working away in my hot room, they are batched into seperate jars so I can mix them later and get the flavour im looking for. I added brine made with pure sea salt and beautiful scottish water, which I distilled, and some whey gathered from unflavoured greek yoghurt to (hopefully) get things moving along.   We are only a couple of weeks in so on the fermentation front there's not much else to report. Its kind of bubbly and theres the occasional hissing noise coming from the seal of the jar which im assuming is ok?   The plan is to ferment for 90 days, although I do have scope to go longer as I have a couple of other non hot sauce related projects to keep me ticking along. (Thoughts?) Then id like to turn it into a smooth hot sauce (Advice here is very welcome, I have white vinegar is this ok? Ratios? to cook or not to cook? PH level required to make it 'shelf safe'?) which im going to barrel age in american oak barrels, which used to contain a multitude of caribbean rums for 6 months, or whenever I feel it has peaked.   I have a few photos to post but I'm either being a massive douche, not out of the question, or the forum/thread wont let me?   Id love to hear your thoughts, ill be keeping anyone who is interested up to date with whats going on and I have exact measurements for everything to hand if thats worth posting?   Kind Regards,   Simon    

Edited by SimonDouglas87, 04 April 2014 - 05:40 PM.

Ain't no thing like a chicken wing!


#1A Guest

Guest

  • Guest
  • Pip
  • 1 post

#2 OCD Chilehead

OCD Chilehead

    Smokin' Hot

  • Extreme
  • 4,417 posts
  • aka:Chuck
  • Location:COLORADO (Western Slope) closer to Moab than Denver

Posted 04 April 2014 - 05:45 PM

Thanks Simon and welcome. I wish you luck on the sauce. I'm still learning myself. I will be looking forward to seeing how it turns out.
OCD 2017 GLOG http://thehotpepper....63305-ocd-2017/

"There is no path to happiness: happiness is the path."

#3 turbo

turbo

    Hot

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 679 posts
  • aka:Turbo
  • Location:Seattle

Posted 04 April 2014 - 05:52 PM

Hey Simon, Excited to see how this turns out.

 

Pictures: Unless you pay for a premium membership on The Hot Pepper, you cant upload pictures directly.  What most people do is use a secondary service (I use tinypic.com cuz its free) to upload your pictures, then you use the link to the uploaded picture in your post.

 

Vinegar: I'm a big fan of all things vinegar, but I cant stand white vinegar.  Nothing redeeming about it.  I use white wine vinegar as the base of my sauces, and blend in other vinegars based on the flavor profile I'm looking for.  One of my favorites for a Caribbean like hot sauce is 4 parts white wine vinegar, and 1 part malt vinegar (or maybe a little less).  The malt vinegar is a bit strong right off the bat, but 3-4 months sitting in a bottle and it mellows right out and is something very nice.



#4 SimonDouglas87

SimonDouglas87

    Mild

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 24 posts
  • Location:Edinburgh, Scotland

Posted 04 April 2014 - 05:57 PM

Ah that's good to know I'm not being an idiot re photos!

On the vinegar front I did a bit of reading and got the impression that white wine vinegar was too sweet and white was the preferred option, I thought it unusual because I agree entirely that white vinegar is vile!! I just don't want too strong a vinegar flavour to the sauce? Do you know of a vinegar thread on the forum?

Ain't no thing like a chicken wing!


#5 The Hot Pepper

The Hot Pepper

    On Fire!

  • Administrators
  • 40,594 posts
  • aka:Pookie
  • Location:NYC
  • (x3)

Posted 04 April 2014 - 06:40 PM

Tabasco is aged 3 years in old whiskey barrels and I don't taste oak at all, so not sure it will do anything.


:cheers:


#6 Sizzle Lips

Sizzle Lips

    Hot

  • Extreme
  • 684 posts
  • Location:Mississauga,ON,Canada (Zone 6A)

Posted 04 April 2014 - 06:51 PM

Sounds like you are off to a great start Simon......any thing aged in oak barrels that had rum in it has to be good. :party: Im a rum drinker.....I will be keeping an eye on this thread as you progress.

Pictures would be nice....I use photobucket for all my forum pictures....and I post 100's of pics of everything I do......everyone likes a picture. :lol:


Edited by Sizzle Lips, 04 April 2014 - 06:52 PM.

There is more stupidity than hydrogen in the universe,and it has a longer shelf life.

 

Frank Zappa


#7 turbo

turbo

    Hot

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 679 posts
  • aka:Turbo
  • Location:Seattle

Posted 04 April 2014 - 06:51 PM

I've actually been wanting to start a vinegar thread for some time now.  A few years ago I did an experiment with my base hot sauce recipe.  I divided it into 7 parts and blended each with a certain vinegar (shown in picture below).  The white vinegar isnt shown, but it was part of the experiment as well.  I let them hang out for two months, then tasted them each individually, and then started mixing them to find blends I liked.  I personally don't think your standard white wine vinegar is very sweet, unless its had sugar added because its more for salads than cooking.  I found it was my favorite of the bunch individually.

 

ic8fpd.jpg



#8 SimonDouglas87

SimonDouglas87

    Mild

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 24 posts
  • Location:Edinburgh, Scotland

Posted 04 April 2014 - 07:25 PM

Tabasco is aged 3 years in old whiskey barrels and I don't taste oak at all, so not sure it will do anything.

 

*up to 3 years.

 

Tabasco age their mash with salt in de-charred ex Jack Daniels barrels, large ones at that.

 

My plan is to age the finished liquid in small 5 litre medium char American oak, the smaller barrel will impart more flavour due to increased contact with the wood.

 

It may work, it may not.

 

I can accept failure, everyone fails at something, but I can't accept not trying. :)


Edited by SimonDouglas87, 04 April 2014 - 07:26 PM.

Ain't no thing like a chicken wing!


#9 RocketMan

RocketMan

    On Fire!

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,416 posts
  • aka:RM
  • Location:Titusville, FL
  • (x2)

Posted 04 April 2014 - 09:10 PM

Hi Simon,

  Welcome to THP and your off to an excellent start. Fermenting is a great way to make sauce. I think your going to find though that your Ph is going to be low enough that your not going to need to add Vinegar, well, unless you really like the taste and want it in your sauce. With the ingredients you listed you could probably process it in 45 days, there's not a whole lot of sugars in your mash. The rest would just be added aging. In fact since your going to age it in Oak barrels with medium char I'd probably let it go say 2 weeks, then blend the 2 mashes together and add it to the barrel and let it get started on your aging time then. Save the cooking for the final processing.

 

I'll be interested to see how it comes out, you don't happen to have some friends at Innis and Gunn, I love their Rum Aged Ale :) and would have been a good source for the barrel.

 

Cheers,

RM


Answering The Call For Fire!  If you can't stand the Heat, don't tickle the Dragon!

#10 hot stuff

hot stuff

    Smokin' Hot

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2,906 posts

Posted 04 April 2014 - 10:34 PM

I had a friend do tabasco peppers in an oak barrel and his sauce was the bomb.

 

Now the Tabasco company adds vinegar to dilute the pepper sauce and bring it down to a level around 6000.  If you ferment you shouldn't need to add vinegar to get shelf safe, but get a good ph measurer.  You want it around 3.5.  Now if you want to make your sauce thinner then distilled white vinegar is a way to go without adding too much other flavors until you get it to the consistency you want and not lose your ph level.  But you might want to try different types of vinegar or even lemon or lime juice.


DON'T TOUCH ME UNLESS YOU'VE BEEN WEARING GLOVES!
GEAUX SAINTS! GEAUX LSU!


#11 Heisenberg

Heisenberg

    Heating Up

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 104 posts
  • Location:Ontario Canada

Posted 05 April 2014 - 08:32 AM

Like Rocket said, after a few weeks, you wont be seeing much more bubbling as the sugars have been used up.  The rest of the time will just be aging.

 

The hissing sound is good, means that CO2 is escaping...positive pressure, leaving the interior of the fermentation chamber anaerobic.

 

Cook it, definitely....that is after you are done all the fermenting and aging and are making the final product.  I simmer for a hour or more while I add all my various ingredients.  It will soften the peppers up and make it easier to blend, leaving you with a more homogenous mixture.

 

PH below 4 for shelf stability....most of the nasties have a hard time surviving in the acidity.  Your ferment should provide the majority, if not all of that acid.  The lactobacilli will produce lactic acid (more of a slight sour taste...but good) rather than using the acetic acid (vinegar, more bitter).  If your pH is in the safe range, the addition of vinegar will then just be for taste.  You could also add citric acid, ie lemon or lime juice, but I don't.  I find even the smallest amount of lime juice to be overpowering, but I know a lot of people use it.

 

As far as vinegar types, experiment.  Ive used white, white wine, red wine, cider, and rice vinegars.  It all depends on the type of sauce you're making.  Sweetness from a vinegar isn't always a bad thing, if it complements the sauce.  I make a mango habanero sauce that I add a bunch of agave nectar to....since mangos on their own aren't sweet enough.  A lot of other sauce also use molasses, and mono/di saccharides (simple sugars - ie. dextrose/glucose and sucrose).  And by the way, the mango/hab sauce is the favorite of many of my friends, as it is mine.  The sweetness with the heat is nice.


Let's cook.


#12 SimonDouglas87

SimonDouglas87

    Mild

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 24 posts
  • Location:Edinburgh, Scotland

Posted 06 April 2014 - 02:41 PM

...don't happen to have some friends at Innis and Gunn, I love their Rum Aged Ale :) and would have been a good source for the barrel. Cheers,RMI actually do know the brand ambassador for Innes and Gunn... @Hot Stuff I think I do want that vinegar flavour, I love buffalo wings so my inspiration has come from Louisiana hot sauce but I'm hoping the barrel ageing will give me just a bit more depth of flavour. There's so much more to offer from barrel aging than just giving an oaky flavour, I've experimented over the last year or so with barrel aged cocktails and what's struck me as a common theme is that initially you get a woody note on the nose and the palate is basically overawed with a very dry, young oak flavour, almost tastes like the inside of a sauna if you can imagine that... After time though that strong obvious woody note mellows and becomes a multitude of complex savoury flavours. Not only that but the ingredients seem to just blend and marry into each other and go from 3/4 different spirits each with their own flavour profile to one perfectly balanced and rounded liquid. @Heisenberg I had planned to age the finished liquid in the barrel are you thinking age the mash??

Edited by SimonDouglas87, 06 April 2014 - 02:44 PM.

Ain't no thing like a chicken wing!


#13 RocketMan

RocketMan

    On Fire!

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,416 posts
  • aka:RM
  • Location:Titusville, FL
  • (x2)

Posted 06 April 2014 - 03:37 PM

Alright Simon, now zi want a bottle of that sauce you just described :)
Answering The Call For Fire!  If you can't stand the Heat, don't tickle the Dragon!

#14 turbo

turbo

    Hot

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 679 posts
  • aka:Turbo
  • Location:Seattle

Posted 06 April 2014 - 04:19 PM

I find vinegar based sauces are better when left to sit for a month or 4 after they are bottled / jared. The sharp bite you get from vinegar mellows out and the flavors blend. I think barel aging the finished product would be the way to go.

#15 SimonDouglas87

SimonDouglas87

    Mild

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 24 posts
  • Location:Edinburgh, Scotland

Posted 06 April 2014 - 07:41 PM

@rocketman I'll distribute if you pay postage!

Ain't no thing like a chicken wing!


#16 salsalady

salsalady

    On Fire!

  • Extreme Biz
  • 13,008 posts
  • aka:SL, HSL
  • Location:eastern WA, USA... the dry side of the state
  • (x8)

Posted 06 April 2014 - 08:01 PM

Hi SimonD~!  Welcome to THP!

 

For posting pictures, as was posted previously, most use an image hosting website like Flikr, PhotoBucket, etc.  Upload your picture to that site.  Then, here on THP, click on UseFullEditor....then Copy/Paste the [img] codes from the hosting website into the post where you want the image to appear.   

 

Here's a couple links about posting pics-

http://thehotpepper....cture-tutorial/

http://thehotpepper....sting-pictures/

 

 

Your ferment sounds good!  Good Luck!  and Have Fun!!!!


PureEvilProducts

The Chile Addict's prayer-"Lord, grant me the wisdom to know it will be too hot, the courage to eat it anyway, and the serenity to accept the pain that follows. Amen"

PepperPeopleRock! 


#17 Heisenberg

Heisenberg

    Heating Up

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 104 posts
  • Location:Ontario Canada

Posted 06 April 2014 - 10:52 PM

Both tobasco and Frank's use 'aged' cayennes, which I would assume is the mash itself following the end of ferment.  But like turbo said, the finished product will further age and mellow.  Aging the mash isnt absolutely necessary, just give it at least a few weeks to complete fermenting.  I have 3 jars of mash aging in jars for the past 7 months, when I get around to it Ill be making some more sauce.  Im hoping the longer aging of the peppers enhances the flavor.


Let's cook.


#18 SimonDouglas87

SimonDouglas87

    Mild

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 24 posts
  • Location:Edinburgh, Scotland

Posted 07 April 2014 - 01:15 PM

I'm concerned that it's not fermenting, there's no obvious signs of bubbling at all although when I release the catch on the Kilner jar I do get a slight hiss of gas which is obviously the co2. Anyone have any advice?

Ain't no thing like a chicken wing!


#19 RocketMan

RocketMan

    On Fire!

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,416 posts
  • aka:RM
  • Location:Titusville, FL
  • (x2)

Posted 07 April 2014 - 01:59 PM

Yes sir, leave it alone it's doing it's thing if your getting a hiss, that's a good thing.

 

Lacto bacteria ferment a lot slower than yeast used for Beer and Wine making. Your not going to get a lot of activity in the bubbler. The biggest tell tale sign is when the mash rises in the brine, well if  you don't have it weighted down that is and you'll see the bubbles trapped in the mash too. Once you launch it though it's best o just let it run.


Answering The Call For Fire!  If you can't stand the Heat, don't tickle the Dragon!

#20 SimonDouglas87

SimonDouglas87

    Mild

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 24 posts
  • Location:Edinburgh, Scotland

Posted 07 April 2014 - 02:32 PM

It's definitely risen so that's good, I can see bubbles throughout the mash. Should I keep it sealed at all times? Or is opening it to release the pressure ok? I'm not opening it fully, just I clipping the seal. I'm worried about coming in one day to a smashed jar

Ain't no thing like a chicken wing!






Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Barrel Aged, Cayanne, Scotch Bonnet, American Oak, Ferment, Fermentation

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests