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smoking Brisket vs Boston

grantmichaels

grantmichaels

I am getting held over working longer than I'd hoped today =( ...
 
Danielle is excited about kettlepizza tonight, so I won't be able to be happy unless that happens ... so ... no kettle mods today ...
 
I am thinking about picking up a bunch of chicken legs and a beef brisket and just using the smokenator tomorrow w/o having setup all the fancy temp/fire controls ...
 
Would I be better off w/ a Boston or pork butt, than brisket? ... if I'm not going to have much in the way of metrics/monitoring ...
 
Just curious which is more forgiving, if you will ...
 
Any thoughts or tips?
 
 
Go for brisket because if you overcook it, it actually starts to break down, wheres pork will dry out.
 
Kinda hard to explain, but if you miss the target with brisket you won't get nice moist slices, it will start to shred when you try to slice it, but this is good for sandwiches. Unless you severely overcook it, or cook it too hot.
 
Pork shoulder, if you miss the target temp for pulling, you will have to use a knife to slice or cube it, and it will be drier than you want.
 
Brisket is harder to get right, but the end result tastes better if messed up. Does that make sense?
 
The Hot Pepper said:
Go for brisket because if you overcook it, it actually starts to break down, wheres pork will dry out.
 
Kinda hard to explain, but if you miss the target with brisket you won't get nice moist slices, it will start to shred when you try to slice it, but this is good for sandwiches. Unless you severely overcook it, or cook it too hot.
 
Pork shoulder, if you miss the target temp for pulling, you will have to use a knife to slice or cube it, and it will be drier than you want.
 
Brisket is harder to get right, but the end result tastes better if messed up. Does that make sense?
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Totally ...
 
Thanks for taking a minute, that's exactly the question I was asking.
 
Tomorrow I'll do a brisket and a rack of chicken legs ...
 
After I do this last kitchen, I'm going to go outside and burn the coals I left behind my last BBQ in the kettlepizza to burn off the metal smells etc ...
 
Tonight we'll make a hot ass fire in there and do some pies using FD's 2-ingredient dough ...
 
Danielle won't let me rub the brisket with French's (a la TB), so I guess we're using Guilden's ... hopefully it won't ruin it.
 
Should be interesting ...
 
Thanks, again ...
 
Fat pork is more forgiving as it doesn't dry out that fast. If you are a bit short on time, cut the pork up in large fistsized chunks.. marinate them in your favorite rub with some oil (don't use engine oil, regular sunflower oil will do great :) you only have to marinate for 15min) Put them indirect on about 350 F (use a drip pan for the grease) and give them a quick sear if they reach 150 F core temp. Make sure the rub doesn't burn.
 
I'd rather go for a fatty piece of the neck if you need to do it fast. Don't worry about the fat, most will drip out.
 
I'd only go for brisket if you have time to go low&slow.. else it would just be a waste of money.
 
Here's a post I made on brisket awhile back.

I'm sure some people would say go for the pork, but this is just my opinion. I'd rather have fall apart brisket that is still moist, than dry cubed pork. Yes brisket is hard to get perfect, but it is not harder to get to taste good.
 
The Hot Pepper said:
You need an internal thermometer because you can't guess at this. The meat will cook and then there is a period when the connective tissue/fat is being converted to gelatin/juices. The temperature will not rise for a very long time. This is called the plateau period. You have to watch carefully because once everything is converted the temperature will start to rise quickly and you can easily overcook it (holds more true for pork butt), so wait for your desired temp, pull it, and let it rest. Yes, 2 hours is the minimum for brisket. Some wrap in foil, others say it ruins the bark and it is still cooking. I find this true, the best method is in an Igloo type cooler. It is a large cut and the resting allows the juices to redistribute, just like in a steak, but think of the size difference here and you'll understand the time difference.

Keep in mind it can plateau anywhere from 180 to 205. There is no real target temperature for doneness, pitmasters have the fork twist method, the shake method, etc., but you'll only know how to judge by those methods after many tries. For newbies, poke the brisket with a skewer or the probe of the thermometer, and when the meat is tender it will slide in and out with no resistance. This will usually happen at 180-90 but some pitmasters cook longer for tenderness. Believe it or not you can cook it up to 205 and it will be more tender, but it will start to fall apart, which is okay for sandwiches, but really you should shoot for the 180-190 window, especially for nice slices, assuming it has plateaued.
 
Looking at yours I'm not sure what happened. If it tasted good, that's cool, you can only learn from cooking it!
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Just don't ever let the fire get too hot or the brisket will dry out!
Resting is key, like with any beef.
 
I'm not sure about your selection of meats, pork is a lot cheaper than beef around here. Also it depends a LOT on the quality of meat/breed of the pig. If you do low and slow you'll need to keep an eye on the core temp, else it's near impossible to get your meat right. The zone is crucial in both pork and beef imho.
 
Good steak (i.e. aged steaks of belgian white blue, limousin, d'Aquitaine, Heckrind, South Devon, Angus etc) is quite pricy. Fortunately I'm right on top of a pile of pigs here (Piétrain, Mangalica, Iberico) which are three completely different meats that are simply not comparable. Piétrain is a very lean meat, where Mangalica wollschwein is very fatty (and damn tasty). Iberico is a bit in between.
 
So IF you get to choose your meat, go for the fattier meat (both beef and pork) as it's easier to get it right. Leaner meat will dry out a lot faster unless you mob frequently.
 
Pfeffer said:
Fat pork is more forgiving as it doesn't dry out that fast. If you are a bit short on time, cut the pork up in large fistsized chunks.. marinate them in your favorite rub with some oil (don't use engine oil, regular sunflower oil will do great :) you only have to marinate for 15min) Put them indirect on about 350 F (use a drip pan for the grease) and give them a quick sear if they reach 150 F core temp. Make sure the rub doesn't burn.
 
I'd rather go for a fatty piece of the neck if you need to do it fast. Don't worry about the fat, most will drip out.
 
I'd only go for brisket if you have time to go low&slow.. else it would just be a waste of money.
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I can fully appreciate this. In this case, I'm going to go with the beef because of Danielle being involved ... she doesn't digest pork as well, per her =) ...
 
I've been watching Youtube videos and generally a bit excited while acquiring gear, and she wants to be involved because I'm enjoying myself ... which I can appreciate ...
 
She won't stay interested very long, because she doesn't really like meat all the much (ethical > taste) ... and then I'll BBQ all the things! LOL.
 
I saw some things you posted the other night while I was looking for ideas ... very nice.
 
Also, FWIW, I think I will try to have pretty low temps from the smokenator, I just am not going to tap the kettle this afternoon like I'd planned (for a Party Q & ET-733) ...
 
Beautiful weather here right now (mid to upper 70's and drier than usual from a little front moving through, a only a little wind), so it'll be alright to have a long cook tomorrow, I reckon ...
 
Cheers!
The Hot Pepper said:
Just don't ever let the fire get too hot or the brisket will dry out!
Resting is key, like with any beef.
Click to expand...
 
Yeah. There's not much different in the environment of an empty cooler than a rack in the over (w/ a pan on the rack underneath to catch drips).
 
relatively insulated box w/ little air flow ... amirite?
 
grantmichaels said:
Yeah. There's not much different in the environment of an empty cooler than a rack in the over (w/ a pan on the rack underneath to catch drips).
 
relatively insulated box w/ little air flow ... amirite?
Click to expand...
Resting in the oven will work! Some people wrap in foil too, but if you have a clean cooking towel wrap in that. This allows some surface moisture to escape so the bark does not get ruined. You'll have a perfect bark and the towel will contain the heat better since the oven is pretty large.
 
If you want to look into the meats, try some different breds of pork, beef and chicken if you get the chance. I'm not sure how it works in the US, certainly don't hope it's all mass produced cellophane wrapped meat (sorry about my ignorant view of the US, no pun intended). I have really no clue what kind of breds you have in the US, I'm sure they are a whole lot different than in western Europe.
 
General hints to what meat you should get taste wise;
 
- Beef only of breds of which the males have a large "hump" on their neck
- Pork of fur covered pigs are generally fattier and taste better, great for low & slow
- Chicken, stay away from supermarket poultry. Get a bred like the Rhode Island Red or Poulet de Bresse -> Don't go for HUGE chickens. Generally the smaller ones that are more expensive are the best ones.
 
Invest in a core temp thermometer (no clue how to translate that), they don't have to be that expensive. You should be able to get one under 10 bucks which will work just fine. An expensive rig with multiple wireless probes are something for later. Keep trying with different rubs (even if you find one you like) and KEEP WRITING THEM DOWN. Once had a near perfect rub that I made on "feel" and I was never able to replicate it.
 
When you are trying your smoker, get some ribs.. It's a great way to get more experienced with temperature controlling (and lets be honest, everyone likes ribs). Google the 3-2-1 method for ribs and use the minion method (easy way to get a stable low temp). Do not go for the cheapest coals/briquettes, they tend to give a nasty smell because they are filled with cheap fillers like sawdust etc. Also don't go for the most expensive ones, it's a waste of money. (I think being in the US is an advantage though -> smoking is much more popular so you should have a good pick at stores).
 
For low&slow I prefer coco based briquettes as they are very neutral and long lasting (they don't add taste like charcoal does).
 
Good luck! It's a great way to cook.. and it's a great way to make new friends.
 
I'd even go as far as pre-heating the oven to 200 and turning it off when you put it in. That 200 is gonna drop immediately but what you trap in there will be a good heat for resting as it declines.
 
The Hot Pepper said:
I'd even go as far as pre-heating the oven to 200 and turning it off when you put it in. That 200 is gonna drop immediately but what you trap in there will be a good heat for resting as it declines.
Click to expand...
 
I do this too ... when I BBQ, for my burgers etc, 220F ... I bring them in and once I pop them in the oven, I turn it off ... buys me like 90 mins to eat the burger, allowing me to keep grilling chicken legs, pork tenderloin, or london broil for leftovers.
 
You know you got this. You're the mad scientist of the forum. Looking forward to the pics.
 
If you want to look into the meats, try some different breds of pork, beef and chicken if you get the chance. I'm not sure how it works in the US, certainly don't hope it's all mass produced cellophane wrapped meat (sorry about my ignorant view of the US, no pun intended). I have really no clue what kind of breds you have in the US, I'm sure they are a whole lot different than in western Europe.
 
General hints to what meat you should get taste wise;
 
- Beef only of breds of which the males have a large "hump" on their neck
- Pork of fur covered pigs are generally fattier and taste better, great for low & slow
- Chicken, stay away from supermarket poultry. Get a bred like the Rhode Island Red or Poulet de Bresse -> Don't go for HUGE chickens. Generally the smaller ones that are more expensive are the best ones.
 
Invest in a core temp thermometer (no clue how to translate that), they don't have to be that expensive. You should be able to get one under 10 bucks which will work just fine. An expensive rig with multiple wireless probes are something for later. Keep trying with different rubs (even if you find one you like) and KEEP WRITING THEM DOWN. Once had a near perfect rub that I made on "feel" and I was never able to replicate it.
 
When you are trying your smoker, get some ribs.. It's a great way to get more experienced with temperature controlling (and lets be honest, everyone likes ribs). Google the 3-2-1 method for ribs and use the minion method (easy way to get a stable low temp). Do not go for the cheapest coals/briquettes, they tend to give a nasty smell because they are filled with cheap fillers like sawdust etc. Also don't go for the most expensive ones, it's a waste of money. (I think being in the US is an advantage though -> smoking is much more popular so you should have a good pick at stores).
 
For low&slow I prefer coco based briquettes as they are very neutral and long lasting (they don't add taste like charcoal does).
 
Good luck! It's a great way to cook.. and it's a great way to make new friends.


Context:

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1414264392.766696.jpg



You know you got this. You're the mad scientist of the forum. Looking forward to the pics.


Yeah, not too worried about the eventuality of it, but still 'trying hard' for the maiden voyage like I do ...
 
I sure hope Weber is a lot cheaper over there, but it's a good set of gear! Some nice additions (very cheap) are a rib rack, ABT rack and if you like fish, a fish clamp. If you're into steaks as well, a long term investment might be a cast iron grill (it's not necessary at all, but it gives super sear marks). And if you can't get Danielle into eating wagon loads of meat.. you can make great pies etc on it as well, gives you the classic wood oven taste.
 
I figure you have a kettle type looking at your first post, devide the charcoal in a ring around the kettle (keep the middle free) and put a pizza stone or tile on the grill to deflect/suck up direct heat. Just use the same heat as in the oven and check once in a while with a wooden toothpick if it's done.
 
Or make a breakfast for her.. You will not be able to do anything wrong for the next few weeks..

 
Trust me, everything tastes better from the barbecue.

 
 
Yeah, I'm a Weber-guy from way back. I wasn't patient way back though, I basically cooked everything by way of searing ... I mean, it was good, but I just only cooked things that cooked nicely a such ...
 
The pizzas today are definitely of interest to Danielle, and the chicken legs are more for her than for me, but I hear you ... breakfast from the grill is something I've rarely had, but which has been really good each time that I have ...
 
I could have gone whatever direction I wanted to (BGE etc), but I really wanted the interaction/process as this is as much about sweating and slowing down my mind as the resulting food (I work like CRAZY) ...
 
I also *REALLY* like manually processed food, and beyond that, being the one doing it ...
 
A lot of people would assume that's a matter of control, but in fact it's not, I'm not really that precise or methodical ... I like winging it, and usually learn the science really well, so I can wing it and still get good-enough results while feeling free.
 
It was hard to even buy the Maverick to be honest, as I have candy thermos and scales and things in drawers that have never been used ... that said, temp control seems pretty fundamental to smoking, so you know, you got to do what you got to do =)
 
The Wok just came, actually, while I'm typing this ... got to love Amazon Prime.
 
It's going to be fun to share w/ everyone, though, as I really get into tapping into the collective wisdom on the net ...
 
Sharing is caring =)
Pfeffer said:
 
I sure hope Weber is a lot cheaper over there, but it's a good set of gear! Some nice additions (very cheap) are a rib rack, ABT rack and if you like fish, a fish clamp. If you're into steaks as well, a long term investment might be a cast iron grill (it's not necessary at all, but it gives super sear marks). And if you can't get Danielle into eating wagon loads of meat.. you can make great pies etc on it as well, gives you the classic wood oven taste.
 
Click to expand...
 
I'm definitely interested in reading a future post re: pie from the Weber ... I've not had, or seen ... I also don't know whether I've had a wood-oven taste and known that I was experiencing it ... unless that's what Amish pie *is* ... I've had Amish pie and just like it more, but I'm not educated (yet) as to why that is the case ...
 
We have a Mennonite community in a neighborhood of my town, though, and their pies are to die for, especially comparatively ... yum.
 
Hmph ... was only able to get the flat part of the brisket at the regular market ... I'll go to the butcher once I get more serious ...
 
I did, however, bring home a pair of bone-in pork chops, a pack of hot Italian sausages (links, for me), some Brats (for her), some Nathan's fatty dogs, and a dozen chicken legs ...
 
BBQ time, soon ... I don't think I've eaten yet today ...
 
Dude the flat is all you need. If you buy the whole brisket you need to separate the flat from the point anyway, and the point is for chopping into burnt ends. Maybe other people do it differently but you are set!
 
Pork chops, loin, ham, et al, will all dry out if overcooked. Boneless Boston Butt will turn to melt in your mouth, stringy mush. Takes less time than a brisket, but brisket is more rewarding because of the challenge. You should be able to do a fine job with the flat. Low and slow....
 
Phil said:
Pork chops, loin, ham, et al, will all dry out if overcooked. Boneless Boston Butt will turn to melt in your mouth, stringy mush.
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Biggest mistake with pork butt in undercooked! Not that the meat is undercooked, but that it is plateauing, and holding steady at a certain temp... the pitmaster gives up because a plateau can last 4 hours, but if you don't wait it out, and then let the butt rise to 195ish, you have tough pork that does not pull. Lots of people spend 8 hours cooking it, see the temp stop at 180 or so, and it does not rise for 2 hours, and they say WTF?! And take it off and try to pull it. Nope. Sorry, the fats didn't break down, and you didn't let the meat rise in temp after the plateau to distribute the juices.

Patience is a virtue.
 
Absolutely true. Temps are only an indicator on Bostons... if you have a bone-in butt, the best indicator for doneness is the bone. You should be able to pull the bone out with zero resistance. Ya gotta go by feel and texture. Patience is a virtue indeed... one that can be difficult to stick to when the sun's going down and the family is hungry. But yep.... if it isn't starting to fall apart, it isn't done!
 
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