• If you have a question about commercial production or the hot sauce business, please post in The Food Biz.

fermenting First ferment presents first issues (Now done and processed)

Hello all,
 
I have read pages and pages of threads about people fermenting peppers and such and watched the natural progression as it goes through the process. I have always made my own BBQ sauces from brown sugar and molasses versions to vinegar and spices. The majority of the time they come out great. For me, making a fermented hot sauce was next on my list so I gave it a shot.
 
I had some hot peppers that were a Datil / Hab cross I believe (plants were originally sold as datils but weren't). Since these peppers weren't what I was really wanting to do this with, it gave me a great opportunity to do a trial run just to see how it comes out since I don't care if it gets messed up. I read many many recipes and wanted to keep it simple so I just used peppers and fresh garlic. Instead of doing a mash (trying to avoid mold and yeast that many get) I rough chopped the peppers and garlic and put them into a clean pickle jar with a salt brine ~6%. As soon as the brine went in I put on the lid that I put an air lock on and put it away in the cabinet for safe keeping.
 
So, yesterday was one week in and I have not seen any bubbles or anything. It just sits there but I do swirl the jar every couple days. I made sure to mark the jar with a little line because I wanted to see if the liquid level would rise from the salt but it has not budged either. Any suggestions? My plan is to just let it sit until it either rots or finally gets going. On the other hand, I do have a jar of kimchi in the fridge that I was debating putting a couple spoonfulls of liquid from but I didn't want to open the jar and ruin what I already "may" have going. Any suggestions?
 
8B4433D1-A052-40A4-B0C7-C4A0BE78F443.jpg
 
You did use a starter of some kind, right? Probably a silly question, but I didn't see any mention of it in your post and thought I'd check.
 
It's been my experience that mashes tend to get up and running faster than larger pieces. I can only guess that it has something to do with there being a higher surface area to mass ratio, making it easier for the bacteria to quickly penetrate, but that's just a guess.
 
I also always work carrot into my mashes. An abundance of fermentable sugars means the Lactobacillus get up and running more quickly.
 
In terms of what I would do if I were you, I'd open it up and smell it. Even a slow ferment should smell funky a week in. Either way, I'd pulse it in the blender with some chopped carrot, jar it up, and see what happens.
 
Mike,
 
Actually, I didn't use any starter...reason being, I have heard/read that it could cause a flavor profile that may not be favorable to some (although I wouldn't know either way). Also, in my reading, it seems that there should be enough good bacteria on the skin of the peppers to start it off either way although this may take longer. Either way, since I am a week and a day in and I could care less how this particular batch turns out, I am willing to try anything. I will open this up today and give her a blend and toss in some juice out of my kimchi.
 
My only concern is the salt brine that may or may not have already drawn out any juices or whatnot that would be needed to keep it going. Like I said, worst case scenario I will just get rid of it. I just want to make sure that when I give it a try with my datil peppers that I don't screw something up. Coming into the winter months (we have hit *45 as a low so far in Florida :eek:) my plant will only produce a little bit more. It is currently loaded with green pods but not sure they will mature.
 
So update time. I got home today and blended up my chopped peppers. I used a little bit of the brine liquid to smooth it out and added a tablespoon or two of kosher salt to start over so to say. I also added a tablespoon of kimchi juice and a little piece of the cabbage before blending. The result was about half of the amount I previously had. We will see how it works out.
 
EDIT: I forgot to add, after blending I gave what I had a little taste. I noticed 2 things. First, while it was hot..it wasn't as hot as the plain pepper that I ate to test the heat. Second, the flavor was completely different. It was more mellow and had some nice undertones that I really enjoyed. If I cook it down right now and add a couple little things I would be happy with it. Hopefully the ferment works now and it gets even better.
 
A472B0E1-F96B-4D10-A57B-63CC13DF1028.jpg
 
chiefmanywrenches said:
So update time. I got home today and blended up my chopped peppers. I used a little bit of the brine liquid to smooth it out and added a tablespoon or two of kosher salt to start over so to say. I also added a tablespoon of kimchi juice and a little piece of the cabbage before blending. The result was about half of the amount I previously had. We will see how it works out.
 
EDIT: I forgot to add, after blending I gave what I had a little taste. I noticed 2 things. First, while it was hot..it wasn't as hot as the plain pepper that I ate to test the heat. Second, the flavor was completely different. It was more mellow and had some nice undertones that I really enjoyed. If I cook it down right now and add a couple little things I would be happy with it. Hopefully the ferment works now and it gets even better.
 
Chopped does indeed take longer to get going than mash in my experience.  No starter was fine as you had enough salt to start.  The blending and addition of kimchi juice + cabbage certainly was not a bad thing - the extra lab will kickstart what you've already got going on.  
 
No idea how long the chopped ferment was going prior to the adjustments, but when you tasted the mash after blending it sounds as if the batch had been fermenting pretty well already.  In my experience most peppers get less hot as they ferment and the flavors get more complex and 'deep'.  
 
The one mistake I think most new fermenter people make is assuming their batch should be 'doing something'.  It's hard to chill and leave something alone for weeks at a time without seeing anything going on - we all want visible results, and the sooner the better!  Especially anyone who's done any amount of home beer brewing or wine making - we're used to bubbly bubble offs and blow outs - and most veg/pepper ferments are just so damn boring in comparison.  
 
So long as you see no mold or yeast growing the ferment is doing its thing.  No idea when you started it but I will usually pull mine anywhere from 3 or 4 weeks in to a couple months and then process.  Be sure to update us along the way!  
 
It was going for 8 days with no visible bubbles or anything. I hope that now it will actually do something but we will see. I did not add any additional liquid other than enough to smooth it out some. I am hoping the additional salt I put in will draw some out of the peppers. After a day or two I will maybe add some more brine to cover it up if necessary. I will keep you posted, thanks for the info.
 
Hi Matt and welcome to THP.
I was so drawn to that bottle of 12 year old Scotch in the background I almost missed seeing all that head space in your ferment jar, gotta say I like those Mt. Olive Pickle Jars too. I have 6 of the one gallon size for fermenters :) Here are my obeservations:
 
As was noted that's a heck of a lot of head space and the LAB are going to have a hard time filling it with CO2. I always try to fill the jar to the beginning of the shoulders of the jar. That way I know the air was forced out and a good concentration of CO2 is present.
 
 In your first start you had chopped the peppers and that's fine, I've done it that way myself several times. It can take a little longer for the fermentation process to complete that way but it'll work fine. You weren't seeing any signs of the lacto working because of the rough chop though. When you have a mash the CO2 bubbles get trapped in the mash and cause it to rise. You can also see the trapped bubbles through the glass. With the rough chop there isn't as much to hold the gas so there's no raising of the mash. As Smoke said lacto fermentation is not as aggressive as yeast, well beer and wine fermentation, is. So, we don't get to see or hear the bubbler going crazy and we tend to assume that no notable action means a dead fermentation. My number 2 rule of fermenting is don't ever open the jar till your ready to process. Oh, number 1 is about sanitation. 
 
I'd recommend that as you have already opened the jar once you leave it alone and watch it carefully for contamination since yo have all that head room. If you feel that you simply must do something about it then when you open it you add some carrots and maybe some Agave Syrup to get some additional sugars in for the LAB to work on so the CO2 layer is rebuild. Then don't open it again but JMHO :)
 
Cheers,
RM
 
Yeah, thanks for the observations. I know there is a lot of headspace but I didn't have more peppers on hand at the time to add to it and I thought it may be too much brine in there if I filled it up. I will do as recommended and just continue to watch it and see what happens. Worst case scenario, I am not too worried about these particuar peppers. I just wanted to get the process down for next time. I will keep you posted as it progresses.
 
One thing I did notice though. Since I have blended it and added salt and essentially restarted it, there is about a centimeter of clearish liquid on top. I give it a swirl every day but don't open it. Hopefully the air in there will not be enough to hurt anything but I will consider it a lesson learned.
 
As for the scotch, I think everybody should have a nice bottle in the cabinet. I keep this one for special occasions only since it was the bottle I opened and shared with my grandpa not long before he passed away.
 
Well, today is 3 weeks in on my ferment and still haven't really noticed any action so to say. There are no visible bubbles or anymore separation. I do still swirl it every couple days and I can smell it a little on the top of the air lock so I guess something is happening. Only time will tell I guess. I'll keep you posted.
 
So it has been a month and a few days and the mash is still the same. From what I can tell, it appears that nothing has happened at all but I'm sure something has because I can smell it a little. My plan is to go ahead and process it and see how it turned out. Hopefully it will not be a bust.
 
pH test strips work fine.
 
I don't have a pool, but if they can measure between 3 and 4, I don't see why they wouldn't work.
 
To be safe, you should be below 4.0, 3.5 is even better.
 
Well, I decided to process my sauce last night. For those following along, this was a trial run so the end result isn't really that important to me. I am proud to say my first go came out really good. I did the blend cook blend method and was happy. I added a splash of white vinegar to smooth it out and lower the PH (that I didn't test). I put it into a couple bottles that I saved and stuck it in the fridge. It is not as hot as I was expecting but had a nice kick. It is smooth with a garlic note, almost a sweet spice but not really. I guess you just have to try it. Anyways, ready to start another batch very soon.
 
266B5806-93EB-44D4-BB97-A32F8AFF9FB5.jpg

 
21CAF350-2660-4AB4-A645-F400152EC185.jpg

 
CCE39064-0ADE-43B3-B530-5FCAB0DD8C66.jpg
 
Well, I am by no means on the level of some folks on here but I do like spicy food. The peppers that I used were hot but probably not quite as hot as a habanero but I have never bitten straight into a hab. I do know that after eating one of these raw, the sauce has a significant difference. It is hot but it's an enjoyable heat. It burns but not too much to use regularly. I had a nice mouth tingle for about 5-10 minutes after a spoonful but I didn't have to run straight for the milk.
 
chiefmanywrenches said:
Well, I am by no means on the level of some folks on here but I do like spicy food. The peppers that I used were hot but probably not quite as hot as a habanero but I have never bitten straight into a hab. I do know that after eating one of these raw, the sauce has a significant difference. It is hot but it's an enjoyable heat. It burns but not too much to use regularly. I had a nice mouth tingle for about 5-10 minutes after a spoonful but I didn't have to run straight for the milk.
 
Sounds about perfect to me.  Nice looking first foray into fermented hot sauce CMW!!
 
Back
Top