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Overfert?

Footballhead

Footballhead

Hello!
 
This will be my first post ever in any sort of forum. I have a little gardening experience but I'm really getting into growing these superhot peppers!
 
I have been experimenting with the kratky method on a few of my Jalapenos I started on 10/15/14 from seeds that I started in soil. I transplanted them into containers using the kratky method when it was still a seedling.
 
Photo right after transplant: https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-ay7FsKnkqZM/VHZorHRWCMI/AAAAAAAAAIM/-qD9nz4ZGUE/w677-h565-no/2014-11-26%2B15.56.10.jpg
 
They have been doing very well but last week I noticed that the leaves are starting to fold and curl. If you look closely you can also see that the plant is already setting flowers. I'm using masterblend nutrients 4-18-38 tomato/pepper feed. I was thinking about diluting the nutrients at the earlier stages and gradually increasing the dosage. Or do I just leave it and the plant will figure it out itself?
 
The seeds that I used:  http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/81VkhNnMl0L._SY355_.jpg
 
 
Photo of my plants I took yesterday: 
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-QmUJgxFpzw8/VHZjIWILEvI/AAAAAAAAAG4/YPsSeo5jFs0/w702-h395-no/20141125_235816.jpg
 
I took a bad photo which I can retake later but it doesn't show how curled and folded the leaves really are.
 
I started a carolina reaper that just sprouted which I'm so excited about but I want to get the nutrients down before I try the kratky method on it. I like how much faster it grows versus using soil and act. 
 
Any thoughts?
 
In a way you can think about peppers the same way you think about people. When a baby is born all it needs is its mother's milk. You can think of the cotyledons of a new plant the same way - plants that still have their cotyledons don't need anything else. When a baby is weened, it is first given very small (VERY small) amounts of semi-solid food, which is both gradually increased and also gradually more solid. Your biggest plant is still very young, and if the cotyledons are gone, it needs only very diluted ferts - no more than 1/10 strength to start. The plant won't figure things out any more than a human baby would if you fed it the wrong kind of food or too much too soon. Back off the ferts and when you do restart, do so slowly. 
 
that last photo looks fine to me.  that twisting could be anything. its on the old growth, look to the new growth.
 
what are you fertilizing with? kraty or what ever is just passive wicking it looks like correct?
 
 
Couldn't figure out to edit my op but anyway.... here are the pictures to some of the broken links.
 
roots in hydroponic nutrients:
 
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-Re7oSj34Puo/VHzuGdzp08I/AAAAAAAAAKQ/2lXKli41evg/w702-h395-no/20141126_192248.jpg
 
This was when it was first transplanted:
 
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-k0Vum8NR6cI/VHzuI1o37kI/AAAAAAAAAKc/K7CHAb9nSjM/w677-h565-no/2014-11-26%2B15.56.10.jpg
 
 
Does anyone know if I were to grow it hydroponically all the way through, at what point do I start giving nutes? During the early stages, do I just feed it water?

queequeg152 said:
cant see your nutrients.  that photo is not public or something.
Click to expand...
 
Here are the nutrients I used:
 
https://www.morgancountyseeds.com/store/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=487
 
That photo was just a view of the roots.
 
The problem you face with this form of Hydroponics is the issue of 'oxygen'. The kransky method (or whateva its called)  :P  requires a float device i.e polystyrene to raise the roots out of the nutrient solution which keeps the roots suspended above nutes and drops the at the same rate as the nutrient level is consumed to function properly.
Looking at the photos supplied you have not included this in your design resulting in lack of oxygen which will kill the plant after a time.
 
Stick with it though but make sure to use a ph pen and ppm meter,
Ph 6 is what you should aim for roughly
keep ppm around 200-300ppm (RO water/distilled) for first 4 weeks and very gradually raise nutrient ratio peaking at around 700ppm max then slowly dropping ratio whilst fruiting to avoid bitter/toxic fruit.
 
I have used this method of growing before but learned that dwc is much less hassle(in the long run) with generally better results. I'am not a pro so take my advice with a grain of salty kransky.
 
Whack an air stone in there and you're set.
 
so what are you fertilizing at? EC wise i mean. 
your ferts look cool. a nice simple dry blend, i like it.
 
your plants, to me look alright personally, not great, but alright. those spots you noted could be anything really, even insect damage, though if i had to guess its probably a very mild calcium deficiency? but without knowing what you are adding grams per gallon wise its hard to guess.
 
are you adding the calcium nitrate back to that tomato fertilizer?
 
FireFlyNZ said:
Stick with it though but make sure to use a ph pen and ppm meter,
Ph 6 is what you should aim for roughly
keep ppm around 200-300ppm (RO water/distilled) for first 4 weeks and very gradually raise nutrient ratio peaking at around 700ppm max then slowly dropping ratio whilst fruiting to avoid bitter/toxic fruit.
Click to expand...
 
My ph is 6 and I do not have a ppm meter. I just mix my nutrients according to the directions. Have you experienced eating bitter/toxic fruit? 

queequeg152 said:
so what are you fertilizing at? EC wise i mean. 
your ferts look cool. a nice simple dry blend, i like it.
 
your plants, to me look alright personally, not great, but alright. those spots you noted could be anything really, even insect damage, though if i had to guess its probably a very mild calcium deficiency? but without knowing what you are adding grams per gallon wise its hard to guess.
 
are you adding the calcium nitrate back to that tomato fertilizer?
Click to expand...
I only mix a gallon at a time. I found some people that use this mix on youtube and yes I do add calcium nitrate.
Here is how I mix it.
 
1 gallon of water that has been sitting out for 24 hours and ph adjusted to 6.
 
2 grams of masterblend goes into the gallon of water then mixed around.
 
1 gram of epsom salt, mix that in next.
 
2 grams of calcium nitrate goes in last.
 
From what I have read, it needs to go in that order for the nutes to bind to the water correctly preventing nutrient lockout.
 
Bitter yes.(overferting)- Toxic, lets hope not. A local commercial pepper/tomato grower told me to try adding molasses when bring nutes concentration down also- but yet to try that. and don't know if i would to be honest???? especially in a hydro application.
 
queequeg152 said:
so what are you fertilizing at? EC wise i mean. 
your ferts look cool. a nice simple dry blend, i like it.
 
your plants, to me look alright personally, not great, but alright. those spots you noted could be anything really, even insect damage, though if i had to guess its probably a very mild calcium deficiency? but without knowing what you are adding grams per gallon wise its hard to guess.
 
are you adding the calcium nitrate back to that tomato fertilizer?
Click to expand...
 
Looks around 0.9-1.2 EC. Could punch it into a hydro calculator to figure out.
 
Somewhat common on IC, though they use Jacks Pro Hydroponic/Cal-nit at 1/.67 ratio. Much less potassium, which might be complicating things here. Makes Maxibloom regime look expensive, definitely going to give it a run one day. Hell Footballs brand makes Jacks look expensive.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e545fwyfxqs
 
Here is where I started learning about all this stuff.
 
Not sure if he started in soil first then transplanted to the Kratky method.
 
I'm still unsure how I would grow with this method from start to finish regarding the nutrient dosage. I started a reaper seed in a rapid rooter which just sprouted and looks healthy so far. It took two weeks before the hook appeared. 
 
Looks like this.
 
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-2fBw5KocpvQ/VH4qMRZHYUI/AAAAAAAAAK0/ySKupx1h6zQ/w318-h565-no/20141125_005852.jpg
 
Do I just keep feeding it water for now? When and how much should I feed it? I don't want it to end up looking like my  Jalapeno with twisted leaves. I do like how fast it grew compared to the others that started at the same time.
 
I will also add that I'm growing in a cold garage at the moment with a 400w hps  that keeps the temps at 60f - 70f with outside temperatures at 35f.  Our winters get pretty cold here. I have a setup inside the house where I germinate seeds in a growbox that I made with a cfl lighting system. I would call it my plant hospital where those temps I can adjust to my liking which I keep at 75f-80f.
 
Footballhead said:
My ph is 6 and I do not have a ppm meter. I just mix my nutrients according to the directions. Have you experienced eating bitter/toxic fruit? 

I only mix a gallon at a time. I found some people that use this mix on youtube and yes I do add calcium nitrate.
Here is how I mix it.
 
1 gallon of water that has been sitting out for 24 hours and ph adjusted to 6.
 
2 grams of masterblend goes into the gallon of water then mixed around.
 
1 gram of epsom salt, mix that in next.
 
2 grams of calcium nitrate goes in last.
 
From what I have read, it needs to go in that order for the nutes to bind to the water correctly preventing nutrient lockout.
Click to expand...
2 grams per gallon of calcium yields like 70 or 80 mg/l. its not terrible, but not ideal imo.

my fertilizer profile yields like 170-160 something mg/l depending if i use the calcium chloride or not.
thats like 18 grams per 5 gallons or like 3.5 per gallon.

all this being said, i still think your plants look ok, especially given its a new system you are running presumably for the first time.
the distortion you see could be from any number of things, issues with temperature insects etc. id keep an eye on the new growth and report back.
 
regarding how you mix your nutrients.

there is only one rule to follow... and that is to keep the phosphates and sulfates away from calcium.


you dont have to do anything drastic however. just add one prior to the other. your master blend probably lacks calcium nitrate and magnesium nitrate completely. you can add your epsom salt and master blend at the same time.
add the calcium nitrate after, or before the masterblend and epsom salt.

when i do additions like this. i literally just stir up the tank... drop the most soluble stuff in first... basically everything but calcium and potassium nitrate, wait a minute, then dump the calcium nitrate in.

if you do produce a persistent turbidity (cloudyness) it could be a number of things... too much carbonate in your tap water, or excessively high ph,etc.

if you need to identify the nature of a precipitate or a scale formation. you can collect some onto a piece of glass or ceramic or brick, and blow torch it with a propane or butane torch. the color it burns should be easily identifiable.

i think carbonate burns in a hydrogen flame in an orangeish color. the propane flame should be substantially similar. ive done it once, and it was not worth the effort, but is a bit of fun.
 
queequeg152 said:
if you need to identify the nature of a precipitate or a scale formation. you can collect some onto a piece of glass or ceramic or brick, and blow torch it with a propane or butane torch. the color it burns should be easily identifiable.

i think carbonate burns in a hydrogen flame in an orangeish color. the propane flame should be substantially similar. ive done it once, and it was not worth the effort, but is a bit of fun.
Click to expand...
 
That's incredibly interesting. Do you have a reference or such? I'll probably poke around on Google as well.
 
miguelovic said:
That's incredibly interesting. Do you have a reference or such? I'll probably poke around on Google as well.
Click to expand...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEUbBAGw14k

salts of alkaline and alkali metals give strong colors in visible light at flame temps for a reason i cannot discern. fireworks exploit this phenomenon.

its cool from a science perspective, but its not terribly usefull honestly. there are far easier ways to identify scale than by burning it, but its interesting none the less.
 
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