thinking of making the move to PET bottles, but dont know what pH it has to be. Ive heard it needs to be lower than plastic.
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pH for PET bottles?
- Thread starter PexPeppers
- Start date
eh. speaking from chemistry class, PET is very stable and fairly inert.
it should not need special considerations no?
soda bottles are all PET, ketchup and all that acid junk.
it should not need special considerations no?
soda bottles are all PET, ketchup and all that acid junk.
hmm, ive been getting some conflicting information that the pH has to be slightly lower than glass. what about HDPE?
hdpe is even more inert.
PET is way flexible though. the addition of the terepthalic acid cross links PE chains, so they can flex cross dimensionally, where as HDPE polymer chains stack up close together and form these intermolecular bonds that make it fairly rigid.
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there are varying weights of HDPE though, some are faily flexable, and some are so solid that they have to be machined... because they canot be injection molded.
the latter is actually called UHMW, ultra high molecular weight, or somethign like that.
PET is way flexible though. the addition of the terepthalic acid cross links PE chains, so they can flex cross dimensionally, where as HDPE polymer chains stack up close together and form these intermolecular bonds that make it fairly rigid.
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there are varying weights of HDPE though, some are faily flexable, and some are so solid that they have to be machined... because they canot be injection molded.
the latter is actually called UHMW, ultra high molecular weight, or somethign like that.
its plenty inert.
i buy bottles of 70% concentrated hydrochloric acid in gallon HDPE jugs..
with that said, id wait for salsalady or whoever else is a professional hot sauce guy/gal, and take his/her advice. i could easily be overlooking something.
i buy bottles of 70% concentrated hydrochloric acid in gallon HDPE jugs..
with that said, id wait for salsalady or whoever else is a professional hot sauce guy/gal, and take his/her advice. i could easily be overlooking something.
salsalady
Business Member
Already talked with Pex on FB, but I'll share what I don't know here.
Most sauces are hot packed in glass bottles at temps around 190F. The heat kills the nasties and when the bottle is inverted the heated sauce comes in contact with the inside of the lid to sterilize that. This process will work for sauces 4.0 pH and below (depending on ingredients).
I played around with PET bottles many years ago and it seems they were very heat sensative and would melt/distort at temps over 180F. Plastics have probably changed since then and maybe they are more heat tolerant now. But if not, then the sauce needs to have a pH of (probably) 3.0 or below to allow for packing at less than 180F. As I told Pex, That determination would have to come from a process authority based on the sauce ingredients and final pH of the product.
I don't think the inert-ness of the plasitc is the concern when using it for sauces, I think it's the heat/temperature of the sauce that causes the issues with the plastics. Things like hydrochloric acid and other chemicals are probably not heated when packed. Just guessing on that....
Most sauces are hot packed in glass bottles at temps around 190F. The heat kills the nasties and when the bottle is inverted the heated sauce comes in contact with the inside of the lid to sterilize that. This process will work for sauces 4.0 pH and below (depending on ingredients).
I played around with PET bottles many years ago and it seems they were very heat sensative and would melt/distort at temps over 180F. Plastics have probably changed since then and maybe they are more heat tolerant now. But if not, then the sauce needs to have a pH of (probably) 3.0 or below to allow for packing at less than 180F. As I told Pex, That determination would have to come from a process authority based on the sauce ingredients and final pH of the product.
I don't think the inert-ness of the plasitc is the concern when using it for sauces, I think it's the heat/temperature of the sauce that causes the issues with the plastics. Things like hydrochloric acid and other chemicals are probably not heated when packed. Just guessing on that....
no acids are probably not hot when packaged.
but what about sauces like siracha? thats a PET bottle, im pretty 100% sure on that.
perhaps one has to use a preservative like sodium benzoate.
but what about sauces like siracha? thats a PET bottle, im pretty 100% sure on that.
perhaps one has to use a preservative like sodium benzoate.
I can hardly wait. Im pacing back and forth now! WE NEED RESULTS! LOL.
salsalady
Business Member
With my (not so accurate but recently calibrated) Hanna Checker, I clock Sriracha at 3.55-3.56pH. Take into account the inaccuracy of my meter, the pH could very well be just below 3.5. Add into the equation a processing line that can accurately maintain a temperature within .5 degrees during the bottling process....that's totally do-able for Sriracha packed at 180F with a 3.5pH(or therabouts) sauce in a PET bottle.
OH- and QQ~ I checked, Sriracha IS in a PET bottle!
It cracks me up...I bet all of us here on THP spend more time looking at things like labels and bottle material and soil mix ingredients than 95% of the rest of folks.
I mean, seriously...who else discusses Glass-V-PET-V-HDPE?salsalady said:OH- and QQ~ I checked, Sriracha IS in a PET bottle!
yea pretty much all squeezable semi resilient bottles are PET now. there is some thin LDPE packagres ive seen, but its mostly all PET.
PET blows very very well too, which makes manufacture far easier than say injection molding.
soda bottles started out as multi layered blown PE films, but PET took its place like 2 decades ago.
heh, i remember that. I actually think the A-Treat sodas here in PA are still Multi Layered. cheap flimsey bottles.
also, this:
http://www.sks-bottle.com/340c/fin18c.html
also, this:
http://www.sks-bottle.com/340c/fin18c.html
sorbates are surfactants basically, they keep things properly emulsified. they are perfectly safe.
xantham gum is a thickener i think. no experiance with it but i understand its similar to gum arabic, the sticky tasteless stuff they cap cigars with.
that bisulfite is apparently a preservative. dont know much about it personally,
it all sounds quite benign considering what is in other food products.
lol, they add titanium dioxide to oreo filling from what i recall. it too is totally harmless though.
xantham gum is a thickener i think. no experiance with it but i understand its similar to gum arabic, the sticky tasteless stuff they cap cigars with.
that bisulfite is apparently a preservative. dont know much about it personally,
it all sounds quite benign considering what is in other food products.
lol, they add titanium dioxide to oreo filling from what i recall. it too is totally harmless though.