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One SERIOUS LED light!
- Thread starter Nuclieye
- Start date
Well a 1k is 150,000 lumens. Maybe its a replacement for a 400w HPS? It may have a somewhat better spectrum than a HPS but its not like its tuned to the photosynthetic action spectrum so it wont be that much better. Maybe it's equivalent to a 600w HID.
554w that one is. It'll draw a healthy 4.6A @ 120V
This yours since the pic is on carpet?
554w that one is. It'll draw a healthy 4.6A @ 120V
This yours since the pic is on carpet?
Average realized lumen for a 1kw MH new is 80000 lumens at 4000k. These at 60000 lumen and 6000k blow the MH away for lighting the fabrication plant. I am replacing 85 MH's with these over the next year. Their spectrum is likely crap for plants but may just buy an extra since I'm getting the price break and give it a try. My maintenance costs on the MH's, let alone operational costs running 24/7 is nuts. Electric bill alone for my plant is averaging $24k monthly. These will save about 12% on it and ROI in under a year.
$24,000 monthly for electric bill? 
200000 sq ft manufacturing plant running 24/7. Average water use alone per day is 26000 gallons, most of which goes to simply cool the place, even in the "winter" with so much machinery running.JoynersHotPeppers said:$24,000 monthly for electric bill?
Our facility makes over 6000 gallons of RO water daily also. It's a lot of work to stay on top of it all.
I would hope your waste water on the RO is being effectively utilized. That could cover your water needs completely. I believe mine produces 5:1.
What is the color spectrum on those lights?
What is the color spectrum on those lights?
Scuba_Steve said:
Should have that info Monday. Am testing 3 versions for a week then decide on purchasing which models. I diverted our waste RO to the chiller towers a while ago yet still just a drop in the bucket to total use and chem's went up in towers due to the added salinity. Still an improvement.
Edit... Our system is well managed and typically just over 3:1.
When you said plant I did not think you meant a treatment plant, this is pepper forum therefore I expected you to mean plant...Nuclieye said:
Any way...not a thread for me
LEDs are getting better and better, but will continue to confuse the consumer as long as manufacturers continue to make odd claims. I cant make heads or tails of them yet. So many different claims. But I can understand the idea that if a light source does not waste electricity making heat or light in a spectrum not used that they can be much, much, much more efficient.
So I don't think we can look at lumens alone to decide what replaces what. How many usable lumens are there? If I ever go that route, I am going to have to judge by what the things grow cause I am not bright enough (pardon the pun) to figure it out based on what the makers claim they consume and put out.
So I don't think we can look at lumens alone to decide what replaces what. How many usable lumens are there? If I ever go that route, I am going to have to judge by what the things grow cause I am not bright enough (pardon the pun) to figure it out based on what the makers claim they consume and put out.
Lumens are a horrible method to measure light for our purpose.ajdrew said:
PAR reading are much more accurate. I know they are still not perfect, but they do the trick.
When I judge an LEDs usability, I compare its PAR output at a measured distance to that of said other fixture. The place LEDs really have an upper hand is that the reading at 3ft is fairly close to the reading at 6in. A halide on the other hand has substantial losses as distance increases. It makes up for this though with retardedly high numbers at 6in...
Scuba_Steve said:
The only LEDs with that advantage are the ones with lenses on them.
ajdrew said:
I dont think there is a spectrum plants haven't evolved to use in some fashion. Every color of visible light is represented on the photosynthetic action spectrum. Sunlight white LEDs are the future when the efficiency is better than HID.
I don't think every plant uses every frequency. Marine aquaria require special light sources because some non-green algae (and some animals (ie.: sea anemones, coral) need some frequencies not sufficiently provided by most conventional light bulbs.
Admittedly, we're still learning.
A light source that could accomodate any plant species without emitting frequencies of un-needed light would be nice. However, you'd need one hell of a database just to adjust a very complex machine, so that it would provide a perfect spectrum profile for what you're growing.
Restricting your plants in your growing system to one species -- Capsicum chinense, perhaps -- would be fine.... until you decided to grow CGN 21500 or Mata Frade, which have purple leaves.
Hmmm. I started this post to argue your point, Able Eye, but now that i've finished my coffee, i think you may be right.
Admittedly, we're still learning.
A light source that could accomodate any plant species without emitting frequencies of un-needed light would be nice. However, you'd need one hell of a database just to adjust a very complex machine, so that it would provide a perfect spectrum profile for what you're growing.
Restricting your plants in your growing system to one species -- Capsicum chinense, perhaps -- would be fine.... until you decided to grow CGN 21500 or Mata Frade, which have purple leaves.
Hmmm. I started this post to argue your point, Able Eye, but now that i've finished my coffee, i think you may be right.
Don't the purple pigments (anthocyanins) in a purple leaf also use some frequencies of light unavailable to chlorophyll? On two other threads, some members have noticed that CGN 21500 hybrids (which have purple leaves) have significantly faster growth than other plants. Significant enough to warrant exploring why.
Obviously,the spectrum profiles of some grow-lights wouldn't favor purple-leaved plants nearly so much.
I think that there's still a great many frequencies of light which aren't needed -- or which are needed in only small amounts.
Most of our grow-light systems seem determined to emulate the sun, without allowing for the fact that the rest of the sky emits a different spectrum profile (in lower intensities, but over the entirety of the sky).
Obviously,the spectrum profiles of some grow-lights wouldn't favor purple-leaved plants nearly so much.
I think that there's still a great many frequencies of light which aren't needed -- or which are needed in only small amounts.
Most of our grow-light systems seem determined to emulate the sun, without allowing for the fact that the rest of the sky emits a different spectrum profile (in lower intensities, but over the entirety of the sky).
Purple leafed plants are usually sun sensitive meaning they like varying degrees of shade. Those plants usually grow slower. Perhaps CGN21500 is different enough from the other parrents that its offspring are gifted with hybrid vigour.
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I don't want to take away from the main topic of this thread but I had to comment on what you said aj.ajdrew said:
Everything I read before buying my led fixtures made me feel like I would be ok putting my leds up close. However my plant did experience light burn from only 8 inches away. Not just a little... alot. It wasn't a heat burn either. Actual light burn. In the beginning I thought it was a nute defeciency but I had not changed anything. Only the lights.
After doing some more research I found a small number of people are experiencing what they call "light bleaching" from newer led fixtures. I think leds are getting stronger. Before it seemed like putting less powerful leds close to your plants was ok, but I can tell you as an owner of newer leds fixtures they can't be close. Similiar to my hid bulb I must keep them 20 plus inches away.
On the bright side though thinking about that can't be a bad thing. I would figure that means they are getting closer to matching hid/hps in coverage area....
Here is a photo of one of many of my leaves that experienced "light bleaching"
Able, maybe they use all the spectrum in some capacity but if they used it all they would be invisible. Have green bulbs in the grow room in case I need to go in there during the night cycle. Read they don't notice green light at all. But even if they do, sure there are parts of the spectrum that it isn't worth consuming electricity to create. I really do think they are the future of indoor grows, just so confusing right now that people get bad results due to false claims.
YellowFN, thinking that is more of why even if I had the money I would not switch to LEDS. I am not bright enough to make heads or tails of the many different claims by many different manufacturers. I think one is fine just about touching a plant and from your photo I guess another can hurt them. I hadn't even a hint that LEDS could do that. Thought one of their main benefits was you could get them much closer and use more of their light. Wow!
Thing is, it seems we have something else to worry about from LEDs. I can not imagine that is from heat like with HID that is too close. The term you used, bleaching, is new to me & I gotta wear sunglasses when I go into the one room with MH and HPS running at the same time or I feel like I am bleaching my eye balls. Gotta figure the LED unit you have is putting off some serious light that maybe the human eye doesnt notice.
YellowFN, thinking that is more of why even if I had the money I would not switch to LEDS. I am not bright enough to make heads or tails of the many different claims by many different manufacturers. I think one is fine just about touching a plant and from your photo I guess another can hurt them. I hadn't even a hint that LEDS could do that. Thought one of their main benefits was you could get them much closer and use more of their light. Wow!
Thing is, it seems we have something else to worry about from LEDs. I can not imagine that is from heat like with HID that is too close. The term you used, bleaching, is new to me & I gotta wear sunglasses when I go into the one room with MH and HPS running at the same time or I feel like I am bleaching my eye balls. Gotta figure the LED unit you have is putting off some serious light that maybe the human eye doesnt notice.
Hi Scuba Steve - Yes, you are absolutely correct, PAR is the metric that is most useful for plants not lumens. Never lumens. Because of the way PAR is calculated, it make an assumption of black-body radiation as the source, LED's can fool it a s a single metric. Still, it's the best commonly used single metric. I've never understood the use of lumens by people selling plant lights.
Hello Yellowfin - It does look like your plants may have gotten too much light. Believe it or not heat may still be the culprit. Plants have evolved to absorb photons as an energy source. When the pigments in their leaves absorb light the energy is dispersed in 3 regular ways. It can be productively used by causing an electron to move down the transport chain. It can be re-emitted as fluorescence. And like all reactions heat is generated. When a plant gets more light than it can use, or fluoresce away, damage will be caused by the surplus energy in the form of heat or degradation of proteins from the surplus. The good news is plants can adapt, but only to a point. So if you place a plant in too high of light, it might get burned, but then recover as it acclimates. However, it is possible to put plants under enough light that they can't up regulate their biochemicals enough to accommodate.
And finally: Hi Neuclieye - Nice light!
Hello Yellowfin - It does look like your plants may have gotten too much light. Believe it or not heat may still be the culprit. Plants have evolved to absorb photons as an energy source. When the pigments in their leaves absorb light the energy is dispersed in 3 regular ways. It can be productively used by causing an electron to move down the transport chain. It can be re-emitted as fluorescence. And like all reactions heat is generated. When a plant gets more light than it can use, or fluoresce away, damage will be caused by the surplus energy in the form of heat or degradation of proteins from the surplus. The good news is plants can adapt, but only to a point. So if you place a plant in too high of light, it might get burned, but then recover as it acclimates. However, it is possible to put plants under enough light that they can't up regulate their biochemicals enough to accommodate.
And finally: Hi Neuclieye - Nice light!