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fermenting First ferment questions

Hello everyone, I posted this question/preamble in the Fermentation 101 "pinned" thread but thought it might merit a thread of its own.

this is my first post on the site and I'm looking for a little guidance and reassurance. Found some great information in this thread and wish I had come across this web site before embarking on my fermentation experiments.

A little background info, I live in the UK and this year I've started growing some chills indoors and in containers, luckily I have a good south facing room with a huge long window at work and a very understanding boss, which is great. I have 21 plants and 8 different varieties which have done pretty well considering we haven't had a great summer.

I had a little bit of a glut a few weeks ago when a whole load of chilis ripened at the same time and after canning some sauces and drying a lot I thought I would try and find another way of preserving and came across the fermenting method. I read a few articles and one in particular caught my attention that used a Reisling wine so I made two different mashes one with Fresnos and one with Paper Lanterns using a 2%, kosher, salt mix and topping up with the wine until it was just and inch over the top. The Fresno mix did produce some bubbles after a day or so but the Paper Lantern didn't really do anything. Incidentally I'm using mason jars with airlock lids.

I had another type of chili mature a few weeks after I started the other batches, this time I used the same 2% salt but I just topped up with mineral water. This jar has been bubbling away very successfully for the past couple of weeks and showing all the typical signs or a good ferment, layer separation, bubbles e.t.c. but the other two are really just sitting there doing nothing much. I have even taken some of the juice out the fermenting one and added it to the other jars, separated whey from some live yogurt and bought a starter culture all without any great success. They might bubble away for a day but then they go back to being still again.

Obviously since starting the little experiment I have read about sulphides in the wine stopping the lacto fermentation and this certainly seems to be what is happening but the two jars that I'm talking about now have a very broken down soupy mash without having any adverse smells or growth.

So my questions are;

1) Do you think they are fermenting?
2) Should I just leave them to get on with it?
3) Should I strain the wine off and see if I can get them to start again with just a normal brine solution?
4) Is there anything I could do with the failed mash so and not to waste it?

Sorry for the long winded first post but any advice will be greatly recieved.

Regards, Allan.
Ok so a little more info.

Last night I decided to take the jars out the cupboard, where they're being kept and put them on the kitchen windowsill. We're having a little bit of an Indian summer at the moment and I though the heat might help a little. Low and behold the Fresno jar looked like it had been fermenting a little, there were a few bubbles and some of the mash had risen to the top of the jar. The Paper Lanterns, however, haven't done anything.

Do your u think it may just be a heat problem? Bearing in mind the third ferment is still going strong in the cupboard. Could it be a lack of sugar in the mash mix?

Regards, carty.
 
I'm surprised you are not getting more reply's to your questions. Come on THP gurus, help a brother out!
 
I am new to all of this, but will offer my limited knowledge.
1) Yes, if you see any little bubbles they are fermenting.
2) I would, as long as there is no mold let them go. Just don't open them and let any air in.
3) I would leave them alone.
4) If it has bad mold, I'd be safe and pitch it. If it looks OK but you don't want to make sauce, drain it and dry the mash. You can use it as a pepper seasoning.
 
I have the same issue with a couple of my ferments. Literally sounds identical to your entire process/situation. I found that one mash that was chopped by hand appears to be doing better than two others that I processed in a food processor. I believe the jars that are much finer pieces are not separating or showing bubbles as easy, but are still fermenting.
 
I'll take pictures tonight. I suggest you do the same, people like pics and you will likely get responses with them.
 
Hey, thank for the reply, John.

So it looks like the Fresno ferment is going but oh so slowly but still nothing with the Paper Lanterns really. I'll try and take some pics tomorrow and post them here. I think I'll throw in the towel with the Paper Lanterns and make a garlic, chili and ginger mix with the mash and use it for curries. I have quite a lot of chilis maturing this weekend and the wife has been complaining the Lanterns are "too hot", boohoo so I'll make another mash with some Joes Longs I have.
 
Try Photobucket, it's free and easy.
  1. Start a Photobucket account.
  2. Upload your images to it. 
  3. Use the "Direct" link to the right of the image on PB.
  4. On THP website where you post responses, look in the header for the Image button.
  5. Copy and paste the link in and you're done.
IMG_20150930_192957_zpsuofp1fl3.jpg
 
Carty said:
So my questions are;

1) Do you think they are fermenting?
2) Should I just leave them to get on with it?
3) Should I strain the wine off and see if I can get them to start again with just a normal brine solution?
4) Is there anything I could do with the failed mash so and not to waste it?
 
 
1. Salt content might be a little low - but you mentioned you used starters and also said you've seen 'some' fermentation activity.  I use 4% salt be weight and it is normal for me to see a bit of initial activity but then the ferments settle down and I don't see much if anything for the rest of the time.  Pepper/vegetable ferments are no where near as vigorous as beer or wine in my experience.  
 
2. Yes - 3 to 4 weeks is my normal run.  Some batches go for much longer and THP members have had batches go for a year or more.  Tobasco ferments their peppers for three years iirc.
 
3. Generally I feel like once you've airlocked them nothing else should be done - no fidgeting with the ingredients, no additions, no subtractions.  The only instance where I'll chance opening any active ferment would be the rare occasion where I have a blow out; meaning the mash has pushed up through the airlock and it needs to be removed/cleaned/replaced (as quickly as possible).
 
4. We do not yet know if these mashes have 'failed'.  They might just be taking longer to get going, or longer than you think they need.  In any case I would be very wary of using a failed batch for anything save the compost heap because of the chance of food poisoning.  Botulism is not to be messed with.  If you see any dark mold or fuzzy mold growth pitch it, same for any bad smells.
 
Ambient temps will indeed affect fermentation - I keep all my batches at 74 or above (min) and find that peppers ferment best between 80-90 degrees.  If you look at the ferments in John's picture above you can see some bubbles suspended in the mash on the far right; in the red mash.  That is typical to what I see in my own batches - bubbles will accumulate within the mash and then once or twice a month enough of them will rise and 'glug' out.  Nothing at all approaching the fermentation levels of beer that I've brewed at home.  Here's a link to a tutorial I did a while back, I'm hoping that can help.  :)
 
Wow sorry I missed this!! Looks like SmokenFire covered most problems. I only use wine to ferment and never have had a problem my two latest are bubbling like a scene from Frankenstein!! :) Sometimes they start slow sometimes quickly. Don't be worried about a ferment that starts slowly. Just keep that jar shut!!!!!!!!!!!!
I also keep my ferments on a heated growing mat this keeps my ferments around 80 deg
IMG_20151002_181731.jpg

These have on their bathing cap for the beach :)
IMG_20151002_181812.jpg
 
Not to high jack the OP's thread, but I have a question.

I had an issue with my air lock and had to open a jar. It was 3 weeks in too. I added some sugar, a spoon full of whey, gave it a good stir and replaced with a good airlock.

As long as those sugars feed my fermentation and expel more gas I should be fine to let it run a few more weeks right?
 
Hi. Sorry for the late reply had a nightmare trying to select the url's, sorted now though.



This is the Fresno mash, started on the 14th September




Paper Lantern mash started 14th September




Unknown variety mash started 18th September



Thank you all very much for the replies. It would be interesting to have your opinions now you've seen the pics, I have seen some fermentation but I'm talking a few bubbles nothing like the the fermentation in the last pic. The Fresno and Paper Lantern jars have been opened quite a few times. I've added whey, started culture, sugar and taken some juice out the Fresno mash. Every time I've added something I've had a little amount of bubbles but never for more than a day. I think maybe I should start again with them and put this attempt down to experience.
 
Sounds like it's fermenting to me don't like all the jar opening but I'd wait and watch. My first didn't bubble as much as my last few but came out fantastic this is not beer fermentation you won't see it bubbling as much sometimes you might miss it doesn't continuously bubble don't know why your panicking just watch and smell.
When they go bad you'll know. Otherwise pics look great!! :)
JohnsMyName said:
Not to high jack the OP's thread, but I have a question.
I had an issue with my air lock and had to open a jar. It was 3 weeks in too. I added some sugar, a spoon full of whey, gave it a good stir and replaced with a good airlock.
As long as those sugars feed my fermentation and expel more gas I should be fine to let it run a few more weeks right?
Ok guy's you've gotta stop opening your ferments!!!! JohnsMyName I understand your problem so we'll let this slide :) yes you should be fine. Do you have any action in the jar? Just keep it closed. As long as it's working you've eliminated all oxygen. How long do you plan to let it run?
 
I have had several that appeared to be dormant, and in fact were fermenting although very slowly. Especially the ones I did that were pure peppers, and nothing else. Usually at some point they do start to show, but it may take longer than you think. I had several not show any signs until about 3 weeks, before I could see bubbles. It can help to swirl it around, to either get it going or even to see a few bubbles reveal themselves. Proof was for me when I opened it and smelled that delicious fermented pepper fragrance. If your really sure you just don't want to mess with it again, you can pour it into a pan and boil it for a bit, and make this form of sauce. Don't forget vinegar, lime or lemon juice for acidity if you go this route. Personally I would just leave it alone, but give it a swirl once every couple of days. Hope it works out well for you. 
 
oldsalty said:
Ok guy's you've gotta stop opening your ferments!!!! JohnsMyName I understand your problem so we'll let this slide :) yes you should be fine. Do you have any action in the jar? Just keep it closed. As long as it's working you've eliminated all oxygen. How long do you plan to let it run?
Thanks Salty! No action 2 days after opening and adding sugar and whey. It's been going since 9/13 and was/is my very first ferment. I was thinking a couple more weeks or as long as I can take the wait.

I really like this new hobby, I've since added a few more ;)
 
IMG_20151003_211304_zpsjpwqpegu.jpg


Also, the issue I had with my airlock was with my "DIY" ones. The mash started sucking the water from the reservoir back up the tube into the mash??? I am attributing this to the temperature change we had here in CT recently. Went from 70-80's to 40-60's overnight. Maybe temperature change caused this? Or is this evidence of some nasties I'm not familiar with?
 
Wow john those look amazing great job!!! No worries about the air lock that does happen especially if there's a drastic temp change in the house. Definitely look into these mats keeps your ferments at 80deg
IMG_20151002_181731.jpg
IMG_20151002_181812.jpg

I have four and put them inside a little rimmed box as you can see in case of ferment overflows :) otherwise you're doing great!! Don't panic have patience the rewards will be well worth it!! My longer running ferments are my favorite!! 60/90 days. Then ageing in the fridge with a plastic cover on jars. Or if happy with flavor profile ill process then let that age at least 20 more days before bottling. This give the best results in my humble opinion :)
 
Yes that's very true, a water bath might kick start the process but certainly wouldn't prolong any fermentation when the mash gets back to room temperature. I think I might invest in one, already been looking on Amazon.

I think I might have caught the fermentation bug.
 
Carty said:
Yes that's very true, a water bath might kick start the process but certainly wouldn't prolong any fermentation when the mash gets back to room temperature. I think I might invest in one, already been looking on Amazon.
I think I might have caught the fermentation bug.
Yes and as the water cools will suck the heat back out!! :) fantastic just keep us updated and will be there to help you all the way!!!!! :)
 
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