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Hobbyist looking for help for ethical recreation of caribbean pepper sauce

Stabler

Stabler

Hello all,
 
First off, I'm really glad I found this site- I've been going through the stickies and assorted posts here and I've already found better information than I've gathered from the rest of the web combined.  So, excellent site!  I've been making my own sauces for about a year now, but on a very amateur level- just cooking small batches for immediate consumption, with relatively simple recipes.
 
Anyhow, before I get into the details of my specific request, I wanted to make sure that my request wouldn't offend anyone, since it does involve trying to recreate something that's in the neighborhood of an existing sauce (and in looking at some existing posts, this seems to be a gray area).  
 
So, a little backstory- a few years ago, my wife and I went to a resort in the grenadine islands for our honeymoon.  Every morning, we started out with a bloody mary- and not just any bloody mary, but the best bloody mary I'd ever encountered.  After developing a solid rapport with our bartender, she showed us their secret- a local hot pepper sauce that was only available through a handful of shops on an adjacent island.  Needless to say, we started requesting it on everything we ate or drank.  We tried to buy some to bring back home, but the only shop near the resort that stocked it was fresh out.  Fortunately, on the last day of our trip, our bartender friend subtly hinted that she was leaving a new bottle on the bar while she turned her back to wash some glasses, and if that bottle happened to disappear...  ;)
 
We've stretched that magnificent bottle of sauce for two years- but now the end is in sight and there's only a few tablespoons left.  I've tried everything humanly possible to find somewhere that sells it... but they don't export it.  I know this because I ended up calling the number on the bottle, and rather than getting a factory, I ended up speaking directly to the woman who makes it on her home line (which was pretty cool).  She's a very sweet, elderly, woman who told me that she used to ship small orders internationally when her husband was alive, but since he passed away, it was too difficult for her to get the orders to the post office so she had to move to local pickup, only.  
 
So- if there was any way for me to legitimately buy more, I would in a heartbeat.  But short of flying back down to those islands, it looks like I'm out of luck.  But this is one of those sauces that, once you have it, you can't live without it.  The bottle has the list of ingredients, and a picture on the front which (hopefully) shows the peppers involved.  I still have enough that I could get video that shows the consistency.  And I'd imagine that I could give a reasonable description of the bouquet and flavors.  
 
Again, after reading a lot of posts here, I know that recreating a sauce is hardly an exact science, especially when you have no physical access to it- but any information or advice that pushed me in the right direction would be a huge help.  So, if I'm not breaking any rules, I'd love to post any information (I can keep the brand name hidden) that I have and see if any of the experts here have any thoughts.  I'm not trying to make this for any sort of resale- I just want to see if I can get a reasonable facsimile of this on hand at all times, so I can go back to dousing my food with it  :P
 
Um... sorry for that whole novel.  But is this an acceptable request?
 
Thanks!
 
 
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This story sounds familiar.

Welcome to THP

We helped someone track down a sauce one time and found that it was not exported.

In your case, being that we has over 9k members, we should be able to help you closely replicate it.

Othets are better at sauces than I am and will surely chime in. GOOD LUCK.

:cheers:
 
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Thanks for the welcomes!  
 
Just wanted to make sure I was clear to reference the actual product- I know people are protective of their recipes (for good reason!) so I certainly want to respect that.  It's a product called Bowman's Hot Pepper Sauce, out of St. Vincent's.  
 
Obvious clue #1: the ingredients are listed as: Selected hot peppers, paw paw, onion, mustard, garlic, vinegar, and salt.
 
(Paw paw seems to be seasonal and might be a tough find in the north east, but it looks like you can substitute papaya with a touch of banana)
 
 
Clue #2: The bottle has this picture on the front.  Hopefully that's not clip art, and it's a picture of the peppers.  While the recipe is obviously vague on the actual peppers, I think it's safe to assume that they're native to the Caribbean.
 
gcBU6Q.jpg

 
Clue #3: consistency- There are pulpy bits that stick to the sides of the bottle, but the sauce itself is pretty fluid (if you tilt the bottle, it pours back and forth easily.  When sitting it does tend to settle so there's a thinner layer of liquid on top.  Color is primarily orange with some seeds and plenty of tiny flecks of red.
Sp6Tuk.jpg

 
Clue #4: Aroma: For comparison's sake, I bought a bottle of Baron West Indies Hot Sauce, which is made nearby in St. Lucia, hoping that I might get lucky and land in the right ballpark, or at least get a good frame of reference.  They couldn't be more different. Like most habanero sauces I've tried, Baron 's sauce has a fruity, floral, citrus laden bouquet.  Bowman's is quite the opposite- my wife and I did a "smell" test of all the hot sauces/condiments we have, and the closest to Bowman's in terms of aroma was actually yellow table mustard.  It's very tangy, and not the least bit fruity.
 
Clue #5: Flavor: Very direct flavor- salty, and much closer to a tasty sour than sweet.  My wife (who knows more about such things than I do) refers to it as an "umami" flavor. The flavor is deep, and doesn't need long to develop.  It has a pleasant amount of heat- hits you up front and then dissipates slowly, never overwhelms.  Even without a huge tolerance for spicy foods, someone could easily eat a few tablespoons of it without getting into trouble. 
 
I've tried a few variations already with habaneros (it's one of the only hot peppers I can find around this time of year) and nothing has come close to it.  I tried:
1) Processing a large number of chopped Habaneros (40-ish), with white vinegar, a few cloves of garlic, an onion, some tablespoons of yellow table mustard, with a little orange papaya and salt to taste.  It's not a bad sauce, but tastes nothing like Bowman's.  Way too sweet.
2) Boiling a handful of habaneros with malt vinegar, yellow table mustard, onions, and garlic, and then cooling it and blending it with golden papaya and salt.  Again, not a bad sauce, but not even close.
 
So that's where I stand right now.  In my uninformed opinion, I'm pretty sure I need to try some different peppers for the base (scotch bonnets, and whatever else is on the label?)... and I'm also wondering if brining the peppers might be a better approach.  Also, since "mustard" is pretty vague, I'm wondering if there's a different direction to take rather than table mustard... mustard powder?  Mustard seeds?  If anyone has any input, it would be greatly appreciated!  Also, apologies if any of my explanations are lacking- this is actually more difficult to describe than I anticipated!
 
Thanks!
 
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Welcome to the Forum!  
 
I'm sure you have, but have you considered asking this woman for the recipe?  Especially if she isn't going to have the sauce recipe passed down after she passes or retires.   
 
I've thought recipes were off limits before, but I'm managed to swing some recipes from more small businesses than I care to admit.   I still buy from them, but on the off chance I can't buy from them anymore, I don't want to be in the situation you are in currently. 
 
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Vicious Vex said:
Welcome to the Forum!  
 
I'm sure you have, but have you considered asking this woman for the recipe?  Especially if she isn't going to have the sauce recipe passed down after she passes or retires.   
 
I've thought recipes were off limits before, but I'm managed to swing some recipes from more small businesses than I care to admit.   I still buy from them, but on the off chance I can't buy from them anymore, I don't want to be in the situation you are in currently.
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JUST ASK


The paw paw is is gonna make a difference. I also think the mustard would likely be seed or powder. Mustard in the yellow bottle would require listing its ingredients.
 
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Rymerpt said:
JUST ASK


The paw paw is is gonna make a difference. I also think the mustard would likely be seed or powder. Mustard in the yellow bottle would require listing its ingredients.
Click to expand...
 
Don't forget that there are almost more than 1 type of mustard.   White, yellow, and black.   Black is your spicy mustard, yellow - think french's, and white is a subtle type of mustard.  
 
Mustard is a monster on it's own.     
 
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Thanks for the thoughts so far!
 
I think it's definitely worth a call to see if she'd be willing to sell any of her recipes or techniques, if not the main one.  I'm sure any insight into her process would be a huge step in the right direction.
 
Have any of you guys used mustard seed or power in a sauce before?  Just wondering what the options are for how its added.  Any thoughts on what sorts of hot peppers might lend themselves well to a mustard-centric sauce?
 
Again, all guidance is very appreciated!
 
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After a little internet search couple things:
 
1. Selected Hot Peppers, if the picture on the label is accurate to what is in there then, as a complete guess, I would think:
    a. The 2 little ones in front are bird peppers.
    b. The dark red or brown one behind them could be a cayenne or
    c. The red curly one on the left is a cayenne.
    d. The red one on the right I believe is a Congo Red
    e. The big yellow or orange one is a yellow or orange bell pepper.
 
2. Paw Paws may be hard to get however they grow pretty  much from the Florida Panhandle to the border of Canada so they shouldn't be that hard to find. I'd put out some feelers in the forum and see if any members can get you some or check ebay or amazon.
 
3. After reading a couple of articles by hot sauce lovers who visited the islands in search of heat, I think that the mustard is Yellow table mustard. It's traditionally used in Pepper Sauces through out the British Virgin Islands and as St Vincent was under British rule until 1969 it could have easily carried over.
 
4. The rest should be easy to figure out. You'll just need to figure out proportions of ingredients. Oh, and I wouldn't use Apple Cider Vinegar. Coconut Vinegar or plain white vinegar is probably more common there.
 
JMHO :
 
Good luck and have fun!
 
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Paw paw = papaya in the Caribbean.
 
The papaya (/pəˈpaɪə/ or US /pəˈpɑːjə/) (from Carib via Spanish), papaw, or pawpaw is the fruit of the plant Carica papaya
 
So yeah, papaya, easy to get.
 
North American pawpaw is a different fruit.
 
Why don't you ask her if she'll share her recipe with you because you love it so much? Then, keep it to yourself or ask if she minds if you share it. You never know.
 
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Hi there!
Papaya is readily available in Boston,also there are lots of Caribbean &  Hispanic foods   Markets                    like Tropical Foods,450 Melnea Cass Blvd.
Boston, MA 02119
 
I would go  to "Tropical" If I were you,they have so many Caribbean grocery items like Trinidad's Chief Brand Massala,Grace Brand,so much...explore the aisles.,,lots of different brands of  pepper sauce,& buy some of the  fresh peppers and try,habs/scotch bonnet etc. with the 
 the RIPE payaya infusion in your pepper sauce.On a personal note I do not use mustard in my pepper sauce,also I do not use but  a wee bit of
of apple vinegar now & then,I use a lot of lemon juice  as my preservative,it really makes a difference.
Now that the weather is "heating up"  you will find more & more Caribbean & West Indian produce available.
As someone who has lived in that part of the world for a while,I can say that if you were to visit a thousand  homes "pepper sauce" would taste different in each home,its an island "TING"  :P         must have pepper sauce!
Good Luck! .....Sandy!
 
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Again, thanks for all the great info, guys.  RocketMan, your investigative abilities are really impressive!  And Sandy, thanks for the store info- I definitely need to try some sauces specific to that area, especially since they really seem to be in my flavor wheelhouse :)
 
As it happens, I just got off the phone with Mrs. Bowman and she was more than happy to talk about her sauce (I can't stress enough how sweet a woman she is- we were on the phone for over half an hour!).  She's been making it for over 50 years, and it sounds like she goes more by taste and instinct than any set recipe- her advice was to take the ingredients on the bottle as a guideline and play around with them (although she gave me a few peppers to avoid and some specifics about how to prepare things).   Sounds like I have some microbatches and experimentation in my future!
 
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Stabler said:
Again, thanks for all the great info, guys.  RocketMan, your investigative abilities are really impressive!  And Sandy, thanks for the store info- I definitely need to try some sauces specific to that area, especially since they really seem to be in my flavor wheelhouse :)
 
As it happens, I just got off the phone with Mrs. Bowman and she was more than happy to talk about her sauce (I can't stress enough how sweet a woman she is- we were on the phone for over half an hour!).  She's been making it for over 50 years, and it sounds like she goes more by taste and instinct than any set recipe- her advice was to take the ingredients on the bottle as a guideline and play around with them (although she gave me a few peppers to avoid and some specifics about how to prepare things).   Sounds like I have some microbatches and experimentation in my future!
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Excellent my friend!
 
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Stabler said:
As it happens, I just got off the phone with Mrs. Bowman and she was more than happy to talk about her sauce (I can't stress enough how sweet a woman she is- we were on the phone for over half an hour!).  She's been making it for over 50 years, and it sounds like she goes more by taste and instinct than any set recipe-
Click to expand...
 
Very cool! You have her blessing but not exact recipe... if she has been making it 50 years she def has a recipe but it may be all in her head and a "handful" of this, etc. Have at it and let us know!
 
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The Hot Pepper said:
 
Very cool! You have her blessing but not exact recipe... if she has been making it 50 years she def has a recipe but it may be all in her head and a "handful" of this, etc. Have at it and let us know!
Click to expand...
 
The best part of the conversation was how bemused she was by my offers to buy the recipe.  She kept telling me "If you have a bottle, you've already got the recipe!  It's right on the side!"
 
If anyone is every lucky enough to encounter it in a store, please buy them out of it... you'll get an excellent sauce, and you'll also be supporting a wonderful person.
 
In the meantime, the local farmer's market was reasonably well stocked for this time of year, so I've got some ammo to play around with...
OqvtrK.jpg
 
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Thanks for the rec, Ian!  I can't find a link to their mustard but I just ordered a few different bottles of their hot sauce (calypso, west indian, and pepper)
 
However, that said, I think I might have found a bit of a game changer in the mustard department.  I'm switching to Coleman's English mustard for this batch- I'd never tried it before but I happened upon it in a random topic on here- it has such an incredible body for a mustard- much less sweet than typical yellow table mustard.  Paired with the right peppers, this might make a really nice sauce...
 
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