Tomato Problem Help Needed

chiltepin · May 8, 2016

Hello everyone,

I have had problems with my soil maybe fusarium. So I am trying hydro grow. I change the water each week. I have tried to add some epsom salts. Using liquid miracle grow for nutes. Mainly using MG because I don't see a big diff in the nutes % for Hydrogrow stuff. This plant is a Celebrity tomato. Any ideas what to do?

thanks,

Jim

queequeg152 · May 8, 2016

idk. looks like iron or sulfate. can you get some better pics of the newest growth?

you cannot use MG formulations... they are for soil, they contain to much urea and ammonium and lack stuff like calcium.

the MG formulas are cheap for a reason.

get some maxigrow fertilizer. its only like 15bucks... will make a few hundred gallons of fertilizer solution.

CAPCOM · May 8, 2016

It is not fusarium.
How long has this change been occurring since introducing the nutrients?
What is you current tds?
And what is you pH?

CAPCOM · May 8, 2016

It may be the beginning of nutrient lockout.

dubG · May 8, 2016

Get some nutrients made for hydro. Most come with instructions for a light, medium, or heavy feeding. Start light, work your way to medium.

Also I see you're doing this outside... Do you know your water temp high/low?

chiltepin · May 9, 2016

dubG said:
Get some nutrients made for hydro. Most come with instructions for a light, medium, or heavy feeding. Start light, work your way to medium.

Also I see you're doing this outside... Do you know your water temp high/low?

dubG: Ok, I do remember the Hydroponics store owner saying something about water temperature and having to keep it above 70 deg. As you saw, the setup is outside and the nights here are a little cooler. Problem is I can't take the setup inside b/c I do not have the grow light setup the plants would need. Now what? hahaha.

queequeg152 said:
idk. looks like iron or sulfate. can you get some better pics of the newest growth?

you cannot use MG formulations... they are for soil, they contain to much urea and ammonium and lack stuff like calcium.

the MG formulas are cheap for a reason.

get some maxigrow fertilizer. its only like 15bucks... will make a few hundred gallons of fertilizer solution.

What about Gen. Hydro's Flora Grow? I don't see IF the NPK is 12% 8% 4% in each product, why it has to be Maxi, GenHydro or MG? Just wondering. I am a huge believer in you get what you pay for, but trying to understand. I know these nutes take ml for an application and you get quarts or 1/2 gallons of the stuff so it lasts for 10 years! :confused:

CAPCOM said:
It is not fusarium.
How long has this change been occurring since introducing the nutrients?
What is you current tds?
And what is you pH?

I agree. I went to the hydro set up b/c I think my soil is prone to mold and disease :-)

queequeg152 · May 9, 2016

maxi grow is the best bang for the buck at your average hydrostore. thats why i always reccomend it.

there is alot of dry hydro fert formulations out there though. i think one is jacks? or jack something.

some people sell smaller quantities of peters fertilizer(usually comes in 50lb bags).

you can also get 5lb flat rate boxes from hydro gardens. jsut need to add your own magnesium sulfate and calcium nitrate.

flora grow is fine... but its just 1 part in a 2 part or 3 part system. its far less concentrated than the maxigrow.

solid7 · May 10, 2016

dubG: Ok, I do remember the Hydroponics store owner saying something about water temperature and having to keep it above 70 deg. As you saw, the setup is outside and the nights here are a little cooler. Problem is I can't take the setup inside b/c I do not have the grow light setup the plants would need. Now what? hahaha.
I went to the hydro set up b/c I think my soil is prone to mold and disease :-)

A 200W aquarium heater works like a champ. Set it for around 76 degrees, and try to make sure that no roots are lying on it.

By the way... You shouldn't have a problem with fusarium with Celebrity. They are known to be resistant. If you get a lot of rain, or water the leaves, you most likely have fungus problems. I notice you seem to be growing on a porch. If you are partially shaded, or mostly blocked from wind, you are gonna have some issues with fungus, and/or bacterial imfestations. Been there, myself.

As others have stated, get away from that MG stuff. Outdoor hydro is the hard road... I'd try to talk you back to media based containers any day of the week. If you absolutely must do hydro with tomatoes, maybe give drain-to-waste a go. DWC grows awesomely, until the roots fill the bucket. Then, the real fun begins. And by fun, I mean problems.

dubG · May 10, 2016

chiltepin said:
dubG: Ok, I do remember the Hydroponics store owner saying something about water temperature and having to keep it above 70 deg. As you saw, the setup is outside and the nights here are a little cooler. Problem is I can't take the setup inside b/c I do not have the grow light setup the plants would need. Now what? hahaha.

What about Gen. Hydro's Flora Grow? I don't see IF the NPK is 12% 8% 4% in each product, why it has to be Maxi, GenHydro or MG? Just wondering. I am a huge believer in you get what you pay for, but trying to understand. I know these nutes take ml for an application and you get quarts or 1/2 gallons of the stuff so it lasts for 10 years!

I agree. I went to the hydro set up b/c I think my soil is prone to mold and disease :-)

Actually outside you have to worry about the water getting too HOT. I think you may have it backwards as I think you want to keep it UNDER 70 (mid 60s ideal)... If I recall, above something like 72 you start getting less oxygen in the water and also more chance for nasties to grow in the water.

PLEASE do not use NPK numbers as your method for comparing two fertilizers. NPK are only the macronutrients but there are many more micronutrients that you have to worry about *ESPECIALLY* in Hydro. In Hydro you have to supply the full nutrient needs of the plant since you're starting with near 0 nutrients in the water to begin with. When you're growing in soil, there are already nutrients there and you're just supplementing. BIG difference.

Some good reading: http://www.epicgardening.com/hydroponic-nutrients-guide/

solid7 said:
A 200W aquarium heater works like a champ. Set it for around 76 degrees, and try to make sure that no roots are lying on it.

By the way... You shouldn't have a problem with fusarium with Celebrity. They are known to be resistant. If you get a lot of rain, or water the leaves, you most likely have fungus problems. I notice you seem to be growing on a porch. If you are partially shaded, or mostly blocked from wind, you are gonna have some issues with fungus, and/or bacterial imfestations. Been there, myself.

As others have stated, get away from that MG stuff. Outdoor hydro is the hard road... I'd try to talk you back to media based containers any day of the week. If you absolutely must do hydro with tomatoes, maybe give drain-to-waste a go. DWC grows awesomely, until the roots fill the bucket. Then, the real fun begins. And by fun, I mean problems.

76 is too hot... by about 10 degrees (ish)

Link: https://letsgrowild.wordpress.com/2012/11/25/advanced-deep-water-culture-techniques-a-must-read-for-any-water-culture-growers-out-there/
Quote:
Q: What is the ideal water temperature for DWC systems?
A: We’ve observed that no matter the ambient air temperature, plant roots tend to do best at 62–68°F (17–20°C). Above 72°F (21°C) the solutions dissolved oxygen (DO) holding potential quickly diminishes and below 60°F (16°C) plants tend to slow their metabolism in response to what is perceived as changing seasons. This said, growers could aid in fruit/flower ripening by reducing water temps toward the end of the reproductive cycle. Being able to dial in each zone of the plant (Leaf/Root) specifically often leads to an amplification of plant productivity.

solid7 · May 10, 2016

I don't grow weed, I grow fruits outdoors. I understand the whole dissolved oxygen in fluids concept. But that was my number for getting through one or two chilly nights - not for running 100% of the time, with the heater on. For getting through one or two nights. It doesn't hurt a thing for 12 hours at a time.

Just my opinion over here... but if you have to run a heater full time, the hydro is already the wrong approach. Get a greenhouse or ambient heater.

dubG · May 10, 2016

solid7 said:
I don't grow weed, I grow fruits outdoors. I understand the whole dissolved oxygen in fluids concept. But that was my number for getting through one or two chilly nights - not for running 100% of the time, with the heater on. For getting through one or two nights. It doesn't hurt a thing for 12 hours at a time.Just my opinion over here... but if you have to run a heater full time, the hydro is already the wrong approach. Get a greenhouse or ambient heater.

I'll agree with that.

Chiltepin, you are doing DWC outside using miracle grow soil nutes.

I'll repeat others and say if you're outside you're better off in soil. Good soil is easy to get in your area, isn't that a bag of fox farm I see in your pics? If you're stuck on using DWC, get decent hydro specific nutes and watch things like the water ph, ppm, and temp.

chiltepin · May 10, 2016

dubG and MH lots of good info and things to think about! I kind of launched on this DWC approach b/c I was tomato poor. I don't want to pour more money into hydro with a couple of $20 aquarium heaters. (No pun intended). The hydro is big for canna but not my thing either.

I will move off of MG and look at Maxigrow. I guess eventually the roots fill the entire 5 ga. bucket as MH mentioned. Rut row.

As for water temp it is ambient air temp on the back patio. I probably won't get aquarium heaters. Maybe I have the whole water temp backwards but will double check my info. IF the water temp doesn't need to come up maybe it's the nutes.

I do have a couple plants in soil as the hydro is experiment. Maybe we have all been there one time or another with the most expensive tomatoes per pound in the universe. So easy yet hard for me. Maybe over thinking it.

Yes, Fox Farm. I hear what you're all saying. Outside grow = soil.

Most of the reason I launched into DWC is I bought this cool (used at a decent price) Gen. Hydro dual diaphragm Blue Stone air pump. Well later what followed was a couple buckets and two farm kits and I was into hydro grow.

Question for MH and dubG should I continue in water or try to move them to soil?

Whew!

solid7 · May 11, 2016

Question for MH and dubG should I continue in water or try to move them to soil?

I'm totally biased. While the growth rate of a dialed in hydro setup cannot be beat in any way, shape, or form, the taste of a well cultured container or soil plot is the winner for me.

I get it. I really do. For years, I did outdoor hydro. I had fruit in half the time as anybody else that I knew. But they tasted like shit, and once those roots got massive - and they DO get massive - that's when it all went south. The flip side of the explosive growth rate, is that when disease sets in, it tends to also wipe you out twice as fast. It's hard to circulate nutrients in a reservoir that's full of root mass. Nevermind struggling with temperature. Hydro is supposed to be all about having control over all of the variables. I gave up. No more outdoor hydro for me.

I'm 100% container based now, and loving it.

Tomatoes are SOOOO much more forgiving in a mix, than in outdoor hydro.

SavinaRed · May 11, 2016

Good thread with both sides having their good and bad points. I've thought about hydro but in the Central Valley with the extended growing season it doesn't make much sense to me. In fact I'm rethinking even doing seedlings indoors in the winters since my volunteer peppers are just about as nice as my seedlings I started in January.

Next year my only seedlings indoors will be tomatoes and not peppers. I'm starting those outside and skipping the whole hardening off thing. Tomatoes for me this year did way better than my peppers and transitioned allot easier outside hardening off.

This is just my 2 cents worth and what I observed from my experience this year.

dubG · May 11, 2016

chiltepin said:
dubG and MH lots of good info and things to think about! I kind of launched on this DWC approach b/c I was tomato poor. I don't want to pour more money into hydro with a couple of $20 aquarium heaters. (No pun intended). The hydro is big for canna but not my thing either.

I will move off of MG and look at Maxigrow. I guess eventually the roots fill the entire 5 ga. bucket as MH mentioned. Rut row.

As for water temp it is ambient air temp on the back patio. I probably won't get aquarium heaters. Maybe I have the whole water temp backwards but will double check my info. IF the water temp doesn't need to come up maybe it's the nutes.

I do have a couple plants in soil as the hydro is experiment. Maybe we have all been there one time or another with the most expensive tomatoes per pound in the universe. So easy yet hard for me. Maybe over thinking it.

Yes, Fox Farm. I hear what you're all saying. Outside grow = soil.

Most of the reason I launched into DWC is I bought this cool (used at a decent price) Gen. Hydro dual diaphragm Blue Stone air pump. Well later what followed was a couple buckets and two farm kits and I was into hydro grow.

Question for MH and dubG should I continue in water or try to move them to soil?

Whew!

While moving your tomato from hydro to soil could be done, if it were me personally at this point I'd start over in soil either from a cutting or seed. That plant is in rough shape as it is -- moving it to soil is only going to stress it more.