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lighting Thoughts and opinions on LED grow lights

They work and work well
Expensive!!
What has seen many thru for years and years before LED?
Well they still work,very much cheaper and the Jone's DO NOT grow better pods under LED extreme's
Be PC or not!?
 
TNKS said:
They work and work well
Expensive!!
What has seen many thru for years and years before LED?
Well they still work,very much cheaper and the Jone's DO NOT grow better pods under LED extreme's
Be PC or not!?
Thanks for your input. It will be between the LED and a smaller T5. I have very limited space unfortunately.
 
I've been considering the quantum bad boy T5HO. I think they are discontinued though I think they have some "commercial" less cool looking version for sale now. You can still find the bad boys for sale online though.
 
U)<now said:
I've been considering the quantum bad boy T5HO. I think they are discontinued though I think they have some "commercial" less cool looking version for sale now. You can still find the bad boys for sale online though.
The T5 is not a bad choice by any means! Although, I'm not entirely convinced that one T5 is that much better than the next.
 
I've seen some charts on the quantum vs others, it is better than most, but only marginally. A person would probably never notice the difference in their plants. Their branded bulbs are better also, but again not by much. I'll try to find the article.
 
Here's a thread with a bunch of guys using T5... also, I found that picture I was talking about in another thread about lighting... it was posted in this thread by frogman...
 
http://thehotpepper.com/topic/28857-quantum-badboy-t5ho/
 
NOv4FFG.jpg

 
 
 
As far as cost though, you can get into a Diy COB Led build for similar price to a good T5HO like the Quantum Badboy 4ft 8 bulb, which is $229 and if you use their bulbs which are $80, your right at $310.
 
So the advantage to LED mainly would be the $80 cost savings per year of not buying new bulbs, in addition to saving electricity.  You can find T5HO bulbs for $40 though and they are rated almost as good as the quantum branded ones.
 
Cheaper T5HO includes bulbs - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0099989Y2/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=3MPWXENFCXDJM&coliid=I1JDVIK8BSJQAN&psc=1
 
Badboy, no bulbs - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00JSD2SW8/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=3MPWXENFCXDJM&coliid=I2PVMYREQMORZK
New version of the badboy - https://www.amazon.com/QUANTUM-Lamp-Grow-Light-Fixture/dp/B0050I9U5I/ref=pd_bxgy_86_img_3?ie=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=6A6EQ6CNE4W2PVFV5RRF
 
Quantum bulbs - 
https://www.amazon.com/Quantum-54w-Blubs-2900k-Box/dp/B00DQDSOMO/ref=sr_1_2?s=lawn-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1468126008&sr=1-2&keywords=quantum+t5+bulbs
&
https://www.amazon.com/Quantum-54w-Blubs-6500k-Box/dp/B00CAO2BDS/ref=pd_bxgy_86_img_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=V2R922FFG2231BRKMDV8
 
 
Cheaper bulbs - 
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01EQN84AY/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=3MPWXENFCXDJM&coliid=I2PZM16KPE7EKL&psc=1
&
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01EQN843G/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=3MPWXENFCXDJM&coliid=I1C2ID78BGBY5M&psc=1
 
The "blurple" LED lights with the so called "5W" LEDs (cough, cough) are really outdated tech...and while I had a Marshydro myself, it didn't last too long here in Spanish hot conditions. After 6 months LEDs started to go out and I had replacements shipped from fricking Shenzen, China and had to solder them myself.
 
HOWEVER, for peppers which have far lower right requirements than "medical" plants, and for vegging, seedlings etc. the Marshydros may well be sufficent, I had two of those "old-style" "300W" lights, which were very cheap, like 90€ shipped for each. So if you're on a budget and have low/medium requirements they may be "ok".
 
Otherwise I swear by CREE COB lights now. Also, if you plan to grow "only one plant or two" even that one you linked to might be overkill.
 
My opinion is that leds rock. It's not about wattage but more about ppfd. Only get leds that have hard numbers published unless you want to buy a par meter to test them out. A typical 1000w hps bulb produces around 2000 ppfd. The older mars hydro can put out 483 ppfd per 180 watts or even the 280 produces around 918 ppfd. So really 2 of the mars 600 280 Watters can dang near equal a 1000hps with a better spectrum to boot. The cobs produce around 200 ppfd per cob depending on wattage and they run near 50$ or more for the cree 3590. For the price of a mars hydro you're getting more bang for the buck. Don't believe the blurple is outdated as it produces a large amount of photons for its wattage. My plants have shown a great improvement since switching from hps to led. I wouldn't buy the more expensive ones as they are more catered to the other stuff with uv and what not. Just do the math and don't forget about inverse square law.

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Xpur, I don't know what calculations you are using there, but there is something VERY important missing.
 
Calculating PPFD makes only sense if you take the growing size/space into account. A statement like "the older marshydro put out 483 PPFD" doesn't make any sense (sorry) if you don't specify what size growing area you refer to. (PPFD = photon density/light intensity for a given space, based on how much lumens a light puts out)
 
If the old Marshydro lights "put out 483 PPFD" but this intensity only applies to 10 cm right under the light and then greatly falls off just a little to the side, this means you cannot light-out a typical growing space, say 4x2' with a Marshydro and say "it outputs 483". Besides that "it outputs PPFD" it technically not correct, sorry to be picky :)
 
I can tell you so much that there is NO WAY that the Marshydro gives 483 PPFD let alone 918 PPFD, at least not for a reasonable growing space. (918 PPFD would be a shit-ton of light, like for flowering "medicinal plants", 350-400PPFD would be recommended for hot peppers).
 
I have 6x CREE CXB3590 COBs on a growing space which is now roughly 4x4', and I calculated the (theoretical) PPFD in my space from those 6 COBs together, driven at about 32W to 390ish PPFD for my entire area. (This can easily be done since all the data of the CREE COBs is available).
 
I just want to avoid that someone reads what you say here and thinks that he could get a MH "300W" light and get 483 PPFD or 918PPFD over a reasonable area covering several plants - DEFINITELY NOT. You MAY (perhaps) get 483PPFD right above one single plant, but there is hardly any spread or penetration.
 
Here to give an example: If I measure the "light intensity" (PPFD) of a tiny point from a laser, I might get some high value, let's just say 1500PPFD for the tiny dot where I measure. But this doesn't mean I can use a laser pointer to grow anything.
 
Of course, there are still more factors to consider...calculating the theoretical PPFD (for a growing space) from the lumens etc. is a VERY rough estimate because it doesn't actually say how much light actually hits the plants, it doesn't consider distance to the fixture, like you're already say the inverse square law,  optics and things like reflective walls. So the only way would be to actually MEASURE at the plant level how much light is hitting the plants...and then of course there is the problem that you cannot just measure lumens/lux because this doesn't say anything about the light plants need. (A white light, with green in it, may measure "lots of lumens" and lux, but its pointless since plants don't really use green light)
 
TLDR: The cheap Marshydros are "ok" for low/moderate light requirements and especially if you're on a budget. But they are GREATLY outdone by CREE COBs, especially when it comes to efficiency, eg. lumens/Watt. Overall I think there is not even a comparison. However, for peppers, vegetables etc...I think they might be "ok" but I wouldn't expect too much from them.
 
The measurements I was referring to are the numbers put out from an apogee meter at 18 inches directly below the light. The Mars hydro uses 90 and 120 degree lenses. That is a lot but you know in a good reflective tent you can back off some. Yes the leds are very directional though. I have the 280s covering about 2 plants each panel. Couldn't get the same results under hps. Lumens and lux doesn't matter in any case.

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The prob with the MH lights is also that you will have a hard time to even get data for the LEDs. They use 5 different so called "5W" lights, two types of blues, two types of reds and white, each is driven at about 1.5W (now referring to the so called "300W" lights). Each type outputs different lumens and then of course the problem that lumens is rather meaningless anyway. You'd have to add all those together, know the exact value they emit at what amperage etc...to get a very rough average of lumens a fixture puts out. Not so with the CREE Cobs since what each COB outputs we know, we also know the LER and QER value of those which we also need to even calculate a theoretical PPFD.
 
(As you correctly say lumens is meaningless but the theoretical PPFD is calculated using the lumens, at least according the the formula I know of. This is why I say that the calculated PPFD is also only a VERY rough estimate, to get a rough initial idea of what PPFD a fixture might result in. So it's still better than nothing. The "right" way of course would be measuring w/ a PAR meter [not even a simple lux meter] but here too this is more involved. You'd have to measure several points in your growing area and then average them etc.)
 
I'm trying to convince the wife to let me buy a par meter lol. Wish they didn't cost so much

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What are these CREE COBs you guys keep talking about?  I get Cree is the brand name of a led light manufacturer... but what does COB refer too?   
 
Working on my first indoor grow now with a 4 tube Agrobrite T5.   4 plants under it.  Was already thinking I might need to supplement that light with something else... so following along here to see what I can pick up.  :)
 
COB = Chip On Board. Kind of an all in one unit. Just need a power supply and heat sinks. If you Google Cree cob, you will find all kinds of info.
 
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