• If you need help identifying a pepper, disease, or plant issue, please post in Identification.

Trying to get some pepper history straight

So the Red Savina held the record as the hottest pepper from 1994-2007 when it was beaten by the ghost pepper.

I understand the Red Savina was a selectively bred pheno of habanero to produce hotter, heavier, and fruitier pods on a plant that was highly productive.

The ghost pepper was "discovered" and not "created" - is that correct? Meaning that the entire time the Red Savina reigned the ghost pepper could have been hotter.

Then after the ghost pepper I believe that each new hottest pepper was selectively bred for heat and other physical characteristics.

Am I on the right track here?
 
People discover new types of pods every year. Trinidad and Tobago they knew of their not peppers but the world did not. It would be educational to take a pepper walkabout for a year. I friend of mine in Wyoming did just that. She went to Vietnam and India and places in between. That reminds me to e mail her. Also I thing Judy did the same thing last year. I'm sure there's a pepper in the world that might be better just waiting to be found.
 
From what I understand, the Trinidad Scorpion was also a found pepper, having been used in a cream in its country of origin as a varient on deap heat, rather than eaten. It didn't rate much more than 1.2 million though and the strains of it we have now (Moruga and Butch T) were selectively bred to be hotter. Other things like the Reaper, Viper and Infinity peppers were not just selectively bred but also highly hybridized between cultivars.
 
Do double check this though as I am not 100% certain.
 
Is there any research on why the bhut jolokia evolved into something so incredibly hot? Were there certain animals in the surroundings requiring it to be superhot so they wouldn't eat it? Or just an outcome of the genes causing the high heat being dominant?
 
While just speculation from my part, I think some sort of gene responsible for placental tissue density in peppers is responsible for the incredibly high heat. So it might just be a mutatian that happened in different parts of the world at different times, or it might have been some underlying recessive gene that surfaced. After that humans may have been involved in selecting for that particular trait. I haven't read any scientific studies on it though, and I'm not entirely sure if there are studies like that.
 
Sometimes, I like to try and dive into the science of chiles... most times, I just like to accept it all as just some kind of "magic..."  Folks all over the world have been eating these things for centuries, and despite all the trends towards globalization, not the least important of which is the internet, there's still plenty of stuff we simply do not know about peppers-- and we likely never will.  So, while I accept that there certainly is science behind all these mysteries, I also accept the notion that i'll never solve these mysteries, never know the science or even the history, in many cases.  So, I just look at it as some sort of awesome voodoo mojo, beyond my comprehension, and move on.  But, that's just my take on it.
 
Now, having said all that, I just want to address the concept that some of these relatively late newcomer chiles aren't fairly called "discovered," b/c ppl in Trinidad/Tobago and in Nagaland and whatnot, they'd been cultivating Scorpions, 7pots, Nagas, and Bhuts for generations.  i'm not trying to come at anybody hard; i saw that y'all used quotes; i know what that means, and it's clear that y'all know what it means, too.  But, the casual reader may not.  By "discovered," we pretty much just mean that the "developed"/"first" world encountered them for the first time.  Rich folks in the US and Europe didn't "discover" these varieties, anymore than Columbus "discovered" 2 continents that had already been populated since long before recorded history.  These peppers were existing varieties that had previously been unknown to the folks who rate and rank peppers by SHUs--that's it.  And, like i said, i realize y'all know that-- nuff respect to everyone who has contributed to this thread-- but i just want to clarify for those who read this later, and may not understand.  (Cheesy PC rant is over now... thanks & sorry, etc)
 
Finally, i just want to ramble on about how crazy it is that, seemingly, Capsicum species developed capsaicin to ward off critters that might consume their pods, in an effort to ensure seeds and, ultimately, their species, survived.... But, it is precisely that alkaloid, capsaicin, that has fascinated some humans for so long, to the point where we've propagated the species, spread them all around the Earth, cultivated varieties with even more heat, and basically took this thing that was supposed to be a deterrent and turned it into the feature that has made Cqpsicum some of the most popular fruit-bearing plants on the planet.  Capsaicin, apparently, didn't work in the way nature seemingly intended it to, but in the end, it worked even better. At least, in terms of propagating the species and large-scale/long-term survival.
 
 
Finally, i just want to ramble on about how crazy it is that, seemingly, Capsicum species developed capsaicin to ward off critters that might consume their pods, in an effort to ensure seeds and, ultimately, their species, survived.... But, it is precisely that alkaloid, capsaicin, that has fascinated some humans for so long, to the point where we've propagated the species, spread them all around the Earth, cultivated varieties with even more heat, and basically took this thing that was supposed to be a deterrent and turned it into the feature that has made Cqpsicum some of the most popular fruit-bearing plants on the planet.  Capsaicin, apparently, didn't work in the way nature seemingly intended it to, but in the end, it worked even better. At least, in terms of propagating the species and large-scale/long-term   survival.
Really enjoyed this part of your post. Think it's right on the money.
 
fertilizer said:
While just speculation from my part, I think some sort of gene responsible for placental tissue density in peppers is responsible for the incredibly high heat. So it might just be a mutatian that happened in different parts of the world at different times, or it might have been some underlying recessive gene that surfaced. After that humans may have been involved in selecting for that particular trait. I haven't read any scientific studies on it though, and I'm not entirely sure if there are studies like that.
 
There is a documented genetic difference between superhots and other peppers werein the inner walls a thinly lined with placental tissue, even when no placenta is actually growing there. Nobody knows how or why this came about and, from what I've heard, nobody even knows how a chinense fruitiscens hybrid like Bhut Jolokia could just have been found growing in the wild as the story says (the Naga tribe reportedly never crossed any varieties), especially as the cultivar supposedly predates the known introduction of either species to India.
 
This is an example of one of those mysteries that i'm willing to chalk up to "magic," although I can speculate about a few possible explanations.  Maybe the Naga tribesppl didn't realize they were crossing 2 species; maybe we're dead-wrong about how and when chinense & frutescens got to the Indian subcontinent.  Maybe it's all a hoax and Bhut jolokia was created in a lab in 1998.  All of that is just wild speculation on my part and, in the end, it doesn't matter much b/c the Ghost is an incredible chile and i'm glad it's around, even if i don't understand how it came to be.  (The other day, i made some awesome chipotle sauce that i supercharged with a hand full of locally grown Ghosts, among other things...)
 
As for the placental tissue lining the entire inside of the pod, I have heard about and observed this and it makes sense that more quantity of placental tissue, as well as a higher concentration of capsaicinoids in the placental tissue, would contribute to the super-hotness.  If you've ever cut open a Bahamian Goat chile, you'll see that it appears to be lined with placental tissue, but the BGoat is far from a superhot; I guess it has the extra tissue, but not the added ooomph of a superhot.  It makes me wonder if the BGoat and the various Trinidad Supers don't share a common ancestor, given this trait and the fact that they're in the same corner of the world (albeit 1500 miles apart!)... But again, I'm just speculating.
 
spicefreak said:
 
There is a documented genetic difference between superhots and other peppers werein the inner walls a thinly lined with placental tissue, even when no placenta is actually growing there. Nobody knows how or why this came about and, from what I've heard, nobody even knows how a chinense fruitiscens hybrid like Bhut Jolokia could just have been found growing in the wild as the story says (the Naga tribe reportedly never crossed any varieties), especially as the cultivar supposedly predates the known introduction of either species to India.
 
Malarky said:
i guess i've never closely looked at the inside of a bhut, but i'd say the snowy white interior of the BGoat is just the pepper flesh being mostly translucent/unpigmented than having a lining of placenta.
That could be...  I'll take a closer look next time....
 
Back
Top