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How can I tone down heat on Habanero ferment?


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#1 cgibsong002

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 01:36 PM

Just recently finished my first ferment, and it went really well and everyone loved it. I gave most of it away, so I'm excited to try my second batch. I bought about 3/4 pound orange habaneros at the grocery (fermenting in a pint jar). Thing is my digestive system can't handle much spice. So I'm trying to make this flavorful without being too hot. 

 

My last ferment I did about half and half fresh to dried tabascos, and then probably equal weight with onion, apple, garlic, and a good amount of vinegar at the end. I also deseeded as much as I could. With the amount of filler I added in, it wasn't very spicy at all, but also much too oniony, not enough pepper flavor coming through. Deseeding was also a major pain. 

 

I'm wondering if deseeding is a must, or if I might be able to get around that issue by using enough fillers. I also want to keep it a pretty basic/straightforward sauce since it's still one of my first. I'm thinking onion, garlic, carrot, orange bells to keep it a nice vibrant orange. Also another issue I had last time was doing about 5% salt by weight turned out to be unacceptably salty (fixed by watering down with vinegar after ferment).. but at least I had no mold or yeast (did a mash using an airlock, no added water or weights).

 

TLDR; Can I avoid deseeding but also making not too spicy? What salt ratio should I go with, or should I try a different method? 



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#2 dragonsfire

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 01:43 PM

I never deseed, I just blitz them.

Sugar will always reduce heat, so more fruit or add sugar and balance it out with vinegar after pasteurization.



#3 The Hot Pepper

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 02:08 PM

Try making a hot sauce out of it using some carrots, or maybe some water/vinegar/honey or the like to thin it for a sauce.


:cheers:


#4 cgibsong002

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 03:10 PM

Try making a hot sauce out of it using some carrots, or maybe some water/vinegar/honey or the like to thin it for a sauce.

 

I will definitely process it after fermenting the mash to turn it into a sauce, if that's what you're suggesting. I don't intend on leaving it as a mash. Probably Vitamix and strain.

 

How does regular sugar work for a ferment.. good or bad idea? I know the bacteria likes sugars but I usually hear about natural sugars, not added sugar itself. I also wonder if a banana might be a welcome addition..?



#5 dragonsfire

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 03:15 PM

I use honey, adds body.



#6 oldsalty

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 03:20 PM

 

I will definitely process it after fermenting the mash to turn it into a sauce, if that's what you're suggesting. I don't intend on leaving it as a mash. Probably Vitamix and strain.

 

How does regular sugar work for a ferment.. good or bad idea? I know the bacteria likes sugars but I usually hear about natural sugars, not added sugar itself. I also wonder if a banana might be a welcome addition..?

After fermenting i break it down and used my finished ferment mixed with roasted garlic, carrots,onion, sweet potato, etc just roasting them brings out those great natural sugars and honey adds a lot of sweet in a small amount. Try using your ferment in multiple jars and add citrus and roasted veg make sure to weigh everything as you add so if one blows your mind you have it on paper for your next batch. Cheers Happy is the fermenting crew :)


The meek shall inherit the earth but the brave shall inherit the sea.


#7 oldsalty

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 03:21 PM

Haha as the boss and DF pointed out :)


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#8 cgibsong002

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 04:24 PM

After fermenting i break it down and used my finished ferment mixed with roasted garlic, carrots,onion, sweet potato, etc just roasting them brings out those great natural sugars and honey adds a lot of sweet in a small amount. Try using your ferment in multiple jars and add citrus and roasted veg make sure to weigh everything as you add so if one blows your mind you have it on paper for your next batch. Cheers Happy is the fermenting crew :)

 

 

do you add all of that to your ferment, or add some after? I'm trying to use what I've got on hand, I forgot I have sweet potatoes as well. So would you roast your garlic, steam your potatoes, etc beforehand, and add all of that to your ferment jar with the honey? Or is there a reason you would want to add some of those ingredients after instead? I would think the sugars would all be good for the ferment, but talking about sweet potatoes and roasted garlic.. can you ferment cooked veg?



#9 Slug

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 05:41 PM

You can ferment cooked vegetables, but the cooking process fundamentally alters them in a chemical fashion and will most certainly change the profile of your resulting product.  Perhaps you will like it, perhaps not.  I would typically ferment most vegetables raw after shredding so they were easier for the bacteria to break down.  I would be more inclined to add cooked items during the puree phase when I'm making hot sauce or another final product from the existing ferment.

 

 

I will definitely process it after fermenting the mash to turn it into a sauce, if that's what you're suggesting. I don't intend on leaving it as a mash. Probably Vitamix and strain.

 

How does regular sugar work for a ferment.. good or bad idea? I know the bacteria likes sugars but I usually hear about natural sugars, not added sugar itself. I also wonder if a banana might be a welcome addition..?

 

Putting plain dextrose into a ferment of any sort is like putting McDonald's or Taco Bell into your body instead of actual food.  It will keep things going, but at the cost of both flavor and your dignity.

 

Fruits, malted grains, and honey are cheap sources of sugar and have added benefit of imparting additional flavor profiles to your fermentation.  The fruit and honey you can just dump into a new or existing ferment after shredding or mashing them up.  Malted grains must be treated as you would treat them when making a beer, but in a very tiny batch that you add to the ferment after cooling it from the boil.  Keep in mind that honey is a complex sugar and your yeast or bacteria will need a running start to get at it.  If your fermentation is already going or there are a lot of simple sugars available to start with, they will get at those first and work up to the honey.



#10 SmokenFire

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 06:03 PM

If that hab mash is too hot try cooking it down with some roasted orange and yellow bells (and maybe garlic/sweet onion,etc) and your choice of vinegar after the ferment is finished.  Most of the time I think of the fermented peppers/etc that I use as a 'first step' in the hot sauce making process, after which I add bulk/body/tame heat/adjust or correct flavor balance, etc.  


It felt like satan pissed in my mouth it was so hot and lasted a long time. It was a horrible experience eating one of them. - SavinaRed
I would love to travel to your castle to roam the land,eat pie and hunt woman. - sicman
 
 

#11 cgibsong002

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 06:36 PM

Okay. But it's also fine to ferment all that along with it, right? That's what i did last time and what i thought many did on here.

I think I'm going to stick with the peppers, bells, carrot, onion, garlic, banana, and honey. I think i can get a decent mix with plenty of sugars for the bacteria to work on. Then afterwards if i need to i can add roasted peppers, sweet potato, vinegar, etc if i feel the need to adjust.

#12 SmokenFire

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 08:13 PM

Okay. But it's also fine to ferment all that along with it, right? That's what i did last time and what i thought many did on here.

I think I'm going to stick with the peppers, bells, carrot, onion, garlic, banana, and honey. I think i can get a decent mix with plenty of sugars for the bacteria to work on. Then afterwards if i need to i can add roasted peppers, sweet potato, vinegar, etc if i feel the need to adjust.

 

Of course that's great too cgibsong002 - fermenting everything together as one batch is fine indeed.  Experimentation with ingredients in batches is almost the best part!  


It felt like satan pissed in my mouth it was so hot and lasted a long time. It was a horrible experience eating one of them. - SavinaRed
I would love to travel to your castle to roam the land,eat pie and hunt woman. - sicman
 
 

#13 Hawaiianero

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 09:24 PM

MANGO!!!

If not fresh you can use frozen. Mango and Habanero work wonderfully together.

Do your ferment normally and add the mango and some lime juice when you blend it all down at the end.



#14 salsalady

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 11:09 PM

Most beginning sauce makers make the mistake of making the sauce too hot.  Only 2-3 fatali in 2 gallons of sauce will give it a nice 3/10 heat.  Making sauces that are 75% habanero is a really hot sauce.  

 

 

 

While it is all subjective to you, the final taste tester...to ferment  3/4 pounds of habaneros to a heat level 5/10, for most people.....

 

I would start the ferment with-

3/4 pounds orange habs

1 pound cleaned shredded/small diced carrots

6 yellow/orange bell peppers (cleaned, de-seeded, diced) [maybe 1.5 pounds total]

6 large sweet apples [2 pounds total]

1 large onion- diced [1/2 pound]

1/2 cup garlic cloves [3 oz by weight]

 

All the ingredeints will get the fermented flavor.  You can always cut it at the end with more of the same ingredients (but maybe not the chiles if the sauce is hot enough) if you want it milder or less fermented flavor.

 

After it is fermented you can add more hot peppers, or cut it with more non-hot ingredients.  Have Fun!!! Post Pics!!!

SL

 

 

 

 


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The Chile Addict's prayer-"Lord, grant me the wisdom to know it will be too hot, the courage to eat it anyway, and the serenity to accept the pain that follows. Amen"

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#15 oldsalty

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 07:57 AM

 

 

do you add all of that to your ferment, or add some after? I'm trying to use what I've got on hand, I forgot I have sweet potatoes as well. So would you roast your garlic, steam your potatoes, etc beforehand, and add all of that to your ferment jar with the honey? Or is there a reason you would want to add some of those ingredients after instead? I would think the sugars would all be good for the ferment, but talking about sweet potatoes and roasted garlic.. can you ferment cooked veg?

Ok the add in are after fermenting i never use cooked veg in my fermenting mash. No you don't have to use all of what i suggested. As for your root veg yes roast them all potato garlic onion carrot this roasting process releases natural sugars to help sweeten your final product. Again don't cook your veg for the mash no need. And adding fruit to your ferment during fermentation will add fruit flavor but no sweetness fermenting eats the sugars and leave the flavor profile behind.

Adding rasted veg to your sauce adds flavor as well as sweetens the sauce if you like a strong roasted garlic flavor lets say you would add after fermenting. If you want a more raw garlic flavor you woould add raw garlic to ferment mash before fermenting. And no add honey after fermenting to sweeten as i said earlier you would get honey flavor if you add while fermenting but no sweetnes as the fermentation process removes the sugars eats them up so just the flavor Profile remains. It all depends on what you want the finished product to taste like i often add sun dried tomatoes to my ferment while fermenting to add that rich tomatoe flavor taste totally different than adding after fermenting. If you try this get sun dried tomatoes that are not kept in oil. Oil not good for fermentation process. Hope this helps my friend.


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#16 cgibsong002

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Posted 16 September 2017 - 12:05 PM

Well I'm 4 days in and just came home to the sauce bubbling like crazy and overflowing the airlock. I had about 1.5" room so it's not like it was crammed in there. What do I do?? The solids all rose to the top and is pushing against the lid, the airlock is filled with fermented juice, and it's leaked everywhere. I haven't opened it yet but I'm not sure what I can do. 



#17 SmokenFire

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Posted 16 September 2017 - 12:26 PM

Well I'm 4 days in and just came home to the sauce bubbling like crazy and overflowing the airlock. I had about 1.5" room so it's not like it was crammed in there. What do I do?? The solids all rose to the top and is pushing against the lid, the airlock is filled with fermented juice, and it's leaked everywhere. I haven't opened it yet but I'm not sure what I can do. 

 

It happens.  You'll have to open the jar and remove/clean the airlock.  Done quickly it should not be a problem.  Might want to remove a bit of mash while you're at it to prevent another blow out.  


It felt like satan pissed in my mouth it was so hot and lasted a long time. It was a horrible experience eating one of them. - SavinaRed
I would love to travel to your castle to roam the land,eat pie and hunt woman. - sicman
 
 

#18 cgibsong002

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Posted 16 September 2017 - 04:52 PM

I gently shook it up to mix it all back together, and then hit it a few times to settle it all down. Replaced the water in the airlock. Not 3 hours later and I notice it totally blew out again. I can't believe how much activity there is on this. My last one barely did a thing. As you can see, there's quite a lot of room.. at least I sure thought so. I'm worried I'm going to lose too much liquid if this keeps happening, but I'm also nervous about opening it and taking some out. 

 

I just repeated the process again after the 2nd blowout.. so I'll try to keep a closer eye on it now. 

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Edited by cgibsong002, 16 September 2017 - 04:55 PM.


#19 MikeUSMC

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Posted 17 September 2017 - 06:55 AM

Not 3 hours later and I notice it totally blew out again. I can't believe how much activity there is on this. I just repeated the process again after the 2nd blowout.. so I'll try to keep a closer eye on it now. 

Same thing happened to me a couple of years ago. It was glugging so hard I could HEAR it up in the closed cabinet, haha

IMG_5362.JPG

The only way I could get it to calm down was to lower the temperature. Mine happened in the winter, so I put it out in the garage for a few days. Try putting it in the fridge for a couple of days. Hopefully that'll help. Also, I'd put a bowl or something under the jar. Makes the cleanup a lot easier ;)
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#20 Jase4224

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Posted 17 September 2017 - 09:11 AM

You mentioned that 5% salt was too salty.. what kind of salt did you use? I find that high quality salt (like Murray River pink salt or even Maldon sea salt) will increase flavour but not taste salty. I have fermented with these salts with great results. I'm not a fan of kosher salt.

Also my way of reducing the heat of a Hab sauce would be to use for example, 1 part Habs and 3 parts Aji Jobito (or any mild C.Chinense) so you get the full flavour profile of Habs but less heat.

Many people are offering great advice here to add roasted veggies, but if it's the C.Chinense flavour your trying to focus on then there are mild options you can add to lower the heat whilst still sticking to your basic ingredients.

Edited by Jase4224, 17 September 2017 - 09:14 AM.





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