LED - Someone hold my hand

While the power bill might not cause an investigation, but having a dozen grow lights delivered at one time might, lol.

I can't find a comprehensive list of lights and how much they cover, but the basic consencious is between 25-32 watts per square foot. Just beware that some rectangular lights have square footprints and some don't.

Hafners said:

While the power bill might not cause an investigation, but having a dozen grow lights delivered at one time might, lol.
 

Click to expand...

 
We have gotten to the point where flash bangs are an ongoing joke when a car pulls up.  I think it is because when I go to places like Lowes or even the grow store I get wink winks when I say I am growing peppers indoors in the winter time.  I gotta get business cards.
 

Hafners said:

While the power bill might not cause an investigation, but having a dozen grow lights delivered at one time might, lol.

I can't find a comprehensive list of lights and how much they cover, but the basic consencious is between 25-32 watts per square foot. Just beware that some rectangular lights have square footprints and some don't.

Click to expand...

 

AJ Drew said:

 
We have gotten to the point where flash bangs are an ongoing joke when a car pulls up.  I think it is because when I go to places like Lowes or even the grow store I get wink winks when I say I am growing peppers indoors in the winter time.  I gotta get business cards.
 

Click to expand...

You Americans are crazy! xD

Cant you guys just go pick up the lights and stuff yourselves and pay with cash and go register as a farmer or something?

you should look at CMH / LEC
they are "next generation" hps / mh lights.
they run cooler, use less watts, and have better spectrum. 
 
315w covers 4x4' for good pepper growth. so you could do 4x4 trays, or 8x4 trays 2 lights each. idk how big your barn is but. 
4x 8x4 trays is about 4.6k starter plants. idk how how much you need.
 
---
 
LED are very complicated and you have to watch out for crap.. there is no easy button. if you don't want to do 40+ hours of research... just get CMH ^.
If you are thinking about DIY add another 40+ hours onto that research and expect mistakes / material failures, more maintenance, hours of labor settings things up. 
 
led considerations:
1. measuring light intensity in lumens or watts is wrong. you should measure Photosynthetic Photon Flux Density (ppfd)
2. "equivalent watts" led listings do not always list the true wattage of the fixture
3. footprint. leds can be focused with lenses (in the fixture) to provide a wide or shallow angle. this affects penetration, intensity, and footprint. you need to know how much the light covers and how far away you have to keep the lights.
4. there are good brands of leds but they generally cost A LOT for startup costs.
 
---
lets do costs.
you don't absolutely need tables. i would say do without tables 1 year. then you can build tables next year if get tired of bending over lol.
 
room cost
???
 
equipment
8x4 low tide tray = 140$ x 4 = 560$
315w cmh kit = 250$ x 8 = 2000$
circulation fans = 35$ x 4 = 140$
watering cans.. 15$ x 2 = 30$ (not going to setup / price out irrigation system for you lol)
heater =  ? 40$ ?
 
plants
72 cell trays = 90$
coco coir = 40$
seeds = 0$ (i assume you already have seeds, else 460$)
nutrients = 150$ (extra)
 
utility
power =  ~30 amps 120v | 2.8kw * 18 hours * 90 days =  4500 kwh * .095 per kwh = 428$
water = ~300 gallons  = 5$
heat = ?wood, elec, gas? (lets assume 150$)
 
other
tax
website
marketing
festival / market vendor costs
business license / insurance
shipping
 
revenue calculation
actual plants = 4600 plants * 25% loss = 3450 plants
revenue = 3450 * 3$ per plant = 10350$
 
consumable cost = 863$ /  = .25 a plant
other cost = ???? (my guess is like .90 a plant)
 
profit: $1.85 per plant = 6382$
 
equipment cost = 2800$ 
room cost = ??? (assume 3000)
 
conclusion
can pay back your startup costs in one year and start making money.
 
sorry if i went a bit offtopic lol
 

Ok here's my set-up rundown.
TENT: 1 7X8X4. =109$

LIGHTS:2 BLOOMSPECT 300W. =99$
BUY THESE
2 VIPARSPECTRA 225W UFO. =89$
DO NOT BUY,VERY WEAK

FANS: 2 WALMART DESK FANS. =24$

POTS: 30 247 GARDENS 1/2GAL, =40
1GAL,& 2 GAL BLACK
FABRIC POTS

The BLOOMSPECT 300w pumps out 800+ Par at 24" above the canopy hotspots reaching 950ish. Covers a 3x3 area and runs at roughly 130 wall watts. I'm super satsfied with these lights. Currently have multiple varieties setting fruit under these lights. Aji pineapple,White thai,Caramel scorpanero,Sugar rush peach,Murupii amarelia,Aji fantasy,White devils tounge,black zebra cherry tomatoes,and a few others. Also, They come with a 3 year warranty.
I'm currently covering 30 plants in late veg, some early flowering. The BLOOMSPECT lights I use have been tested and proven to have a much higher output than all other cheap brands. Was rated #1 by a big grower on youtube. Heres the link to his channel for anyone wanting to pioneer into leds.
https://www.youtube.com/user/CodyOebel
He does great comparison videos on led lights, So you don't just buy some b.s. he gives you true accurate data and is non bias towards any one company. So he won't just steer you towards some cheap led brand because they sponsor him. Check it out. Ill be buying 2 600w bloomspects before too much longer to add in the mix. Hope this helps a bit.

Wow you guys are bight.  Pardon the pun but being serious.  Is why I asked for someone to hold my hand.  I am so used to HPS and MH that trying to think about LEDS might seem more complicated than it is.  Still have not made the leap because now thinking about the benefits of several smaller lights instead of a few large ones.  So very much to consider.  A lot because I am a cheap old bastard and want to get it right only first try.

I'm about to post my journal of info I have jotted down as a topic on here. Seeing as to how more people grow peppers indoor than I thought. It should be a big help as to i have done hours of browsing the web looking for comparable data on such a topic.

hogleg said:

 
A high power bill isn't probable cause to search and enter anymore. A lawyer beat that a long time ago.
 
They need more than that to go on. Therefor that'll never happen to you.

Click to expand...

 
Its more of a joke than a real concern.  But some really bad things have happened to seemingly good people over suspicion of growing marijuana indoors.  My personal opinion is that even if we stick with the whole marijuana is bad theory, that too many good people are getting hurt by the war against it.
 

I was actually told by local law enforcement to cover my basement windows or come up wth better light control so they didn't have to deal with any more calls about my grow light. At least when they came to investigate, I found a home for a couple extra seedlings.

The prime benefit of LED is lamp life, not efficiency.

Hafners said:

I was actually told by local law enforcement to cover my basement windows or come up wth better light control so they didn't have to deal with any more calls about my grow light. At least when they came to investigate, I found a home for a couple extra seedlings.

Click to expand...

 

A while ago there was a public letter about what to look for to spot grow houses in your neighborhood.  The list was absolutely hilarious.  One of the latest is interference with AM radios.  I guess I could believe a bunch of poorly made 1000 watt HID lamps could do it.

https://www.policeone.com/drug-interdiction-narcotics/articles/8224280-How-cops-are-catching-grow-ops-with-AM-radios/

I had a few neighbors that were caught at the front of my porch staring in when I had them in a hallway cabinet but it's no secret what I'm growing. Coverage for the 300 and 600 aren't much. I keep them between 3 and 8 inches from the plants. I found banana pepper leaves very sensitive so it had to be at least 8 inches for them but tomatoes enjoy being 4 inches from.

hogleg said:

 
A high power bill isn't probable cause to search and enter anymore. A lawyer beat that a long time ago.
 
They need more than that to go on. Therefor that'll never happen to you.

Click to expand...

I think it was referring to the SOG growing that would get dea attention and not the high power bill

AJ Drew said:

I am old school metal halide / high pressure sodium.  Lost a ballast this past year and it is about time to replace bulbs all around.  So it would be a really good time for me to make the plunge into LEDs.  Problem being, there seems to be no standard in replacing lets say a 1000 watt HID light with LEDs.  Every LED manufacturer has its own way of rating and comparing.

Could folk dumb this down for me?  Tell me what you bought, how well it works, how much coverage it provides.  Even telling me what models you bought when you were disappointed with the results will help me figure this out.

Click to expand...

 
as far as I've researched Horticulture Lighting Group has the most well tested 1000w HPS replacement LED (HLG 550). Keep in mind most of the information here is for growing cannabis. You probably wont be driving your peppers as hard as people do for cannabis. 
https://horticulturelightinggroup.com/collections/all/products/hlg-550
 
they are always running 20% off specials so you will end up paying around $800 
 
Chilled Grow Lights also has a 1000w HID replacement.
https://chilledgrowlights.com/our-products-services/commercial-led-grow-lights/gen-2-led-grow-light-600-watts
 
higher end but slightly more powerful, efficient and with more tech features
 
 
 
 
HLG 550 specs:

Power

250-510 Watts

Voltage Range

90-277 VAC

LED

1152 pcs Samsung 561C

 Flowering Footprint

4.5'X4.5' or 4'X5'

Veg Footprint

6'X6'

System Efficiency

154 Lm/W

System PPF Efficacy

2.3 μmol/joule

Total output

1160 PPF

Dimensions

26"X20"x3"

Recommended Mounting Height

18-28 inches
There are many companies that claim 1000w HPS/MH replacement but as far as results go HLG 550s are the only things I've seen on par or better than 1000w HPS (in terms of growing cannabis). Chilled Grow lights is run by two veteran LED guys and I trust their product as well. Just remember there is a learning curve with switching to LEDs. They run significantly cooler so you may have to heat your grow space more as well as managing the humidity more because you are venting less heat. Most of the best information about LEDs and horticulture is coming from cannabis growers because its just a more hot market than growing peppers so if you want to get more information in terms of horticultural implementations you may have to get your information from cannabis forums and youtube.

dragonsfire said:

This what I have, their awesome, very bright.
https://www.amazon.ca/Bonlux-Medium-Photography-Standard-Umbrella/dp/B01E3MNCZU/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1509231207&sr=1-1&keywords=led+bulb

Click to expand...

 
Thats just what i need for a small grow tent on the cheap. Beats the heck out of having to buy T5 2ft fixtures to fit this small "greenhouse" from Menards. I checked out the Bonlux website too. They have quite the section but the light you mention is by far the most affordable even if you get 2.
 
Under $20 each here
https://www.amazon.com/Bonlux-Daylight-Balanced-Spectrum-Photography/dp/B01EFK7XE6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1494472447&sr=8-1-spons&keywords=40W+LED+Studio+Light+Bulb+BONLUX&psc=1
 
Question.....do you have it mounted in some kind of reflector? Like a clip on shop light?

Yes I'm also curious on the Bonlux as I am looking for a very cheap setup for just a handful of seedlings since I don't know anything about growing yet...

I wonder if a standard photography diffuser would work to even the coverage area? That's about a $40 setup per light.

Built this for equivalent of $25US
 
2 x Cree CXA2520 at 30W each so 60W from the socket.
 
Really nice colour spectrum and probably far too much for the 40cm x 30cm box, but just testing at the moment
 

 

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlEDdlemTRM