• If you have a question about commercial production or the hot sauce business, please post in The Food Biz.

Mold?

I've done about 10 different salt ferments in the last year with the fermentation lasting a minimum of 30 days.
I use the lock lid style jars from Ikea without the rubber gasket so that the gasses can escape.
I pour boiling water into the jars and then dump it before adding the salted mash.
The jars sit in a darkish area of the kitchen in ambient Bangkok room temp which is 80-95°F, 75 when we are in the kitchen cooking dinner.
Each day I stir them throughly with a slotted spoon.
 
This ferment I have going now has been going only since April 10  and on the last 2 days there has appeared a white-ish "something" ONLY at the very edge of the mash.
IMG_2976_1.jpg

 
When I look down into the jar, it looks like this.  I see no other white-ish substance or fuzzy stuff anywhere.  
IMG_2978_1.jpg

 
The mash has a slightly different smell to it since starting but not cheesy.  Also, the mash now has a definite sour note to it instead of just salty and spicy when I taste it.  
 
I guess I need to get a pH meter, which I have actually found here, but for now have no pH readings to give other than my subjective taste opinions.  
 
In my previous ferments, I have not noticed any sour taste or white substance.  I have tended NOT to taste the unfinished mashes in the past as I assumed they would just be salty and hot and not very tasty till the vinegar was in there.
 
Should I be worried about this batch?  
Is there any process that is recommended in such an instance?  
Should I allow fermentation to continue?
 
TIA for any help!   :)
 
I would not be worried right now , its probably only kahm yeast 
Try to scoop the withe-ish stuff with a clean spoon every now and then
 
Real mold tend to be grey, green or pinkish, also the odor is realy awefull ..if it was realy mold you would not have been physicaly able to taste it trust me lol
..a sour taste is not bad for now ..in the first few days of fermentation many process are involved and the ferment may have some different taste and odor
at each stages of the fermentation ..the first few days may vary a lot but it will eventualy stabilise as it age.
 
also,the ambiant temperature is a little bit high so the fermentation is probably speed up.
 
I would wait a few days ..scooping what may look white or cloudy ..and then you could come back with a few more pictures and a taste test ;)
 
good luck and have a nice day!
 
Thank you @berzerker that is reassuring.  I'd basically only be scraping around the sides of the jars at the very top edge as that's the only place I see it as you see by the top view photo.  
 
If it looked like this I would know, but this one is more subtle and new to me and my experiences. ;) 
 
When you hear people wax poetic about warm tropical breezes, that's what they are: 85-95F and really humid ;)  Thai people (and me) love their AC. :)  
 
 
 
 
 
Agree w berzerker it looks like kham yeast to me.  When I get kham the ferment also smells a bit "boozy" so that could be the different aroma you're picking up. 
 
Agree on you getting a pH meter as well - they're great for making sure you're safe.  :)
 
Thanks SmokingFire.
Had my wife, who's typical of Thais with a sensitive nose, take a whiff and a taste.  She picked up more of a smoky aroma and a little sour taste all of which is good since I smoked the chilies, garlic and shallots that are in there fermenting away. 
I may lose my objectivity when working too closely with my project. ;) 
 
 
My mash is now consistently getting the kahm yeast but a little googling put my mind at ease.  http://www.fermentools.com/blog/what-is-kahm-yeast/
 
So I need to decide what is best way to proceed and lower the incidence of the yeast.  I like the idea of leaving the ferment out in the ambient Bangkok temps but that may be a stupid idea as it is part of the problem.  
 
According to the above linked article kahm yeast is common, happens to everyone, but esp. to those doing open air ferment, and those fermenting in higher temps, as I am.  
 
My choices are to lower the temp and/or increase the salt percentage.  
 
Since my initial fermentation was not that active, I added maybe 10-15 more chilies unsmoked and 100 mls of salted water at 6% between all the bottles.  The original mash was 3% salt by weight of the mash.  This is when the yeast started forming but now a LOT of new fermentation activity.  :neutral: 
Good and bad. whee!  
 
The reason I had done this was I didn't put in enough, (in my mind), unsmoked chilies which would have more of the good bacteria for fermenting due to the cooking that happens in the smoking process.  
 
Anyway, I'll post what I decide to do and show any results.  I'm leaning towards refrigeration as the mash is salty enough.  
 
Here are the 4 jars of 3.6 kilos of mash this morning.  It's not really possible to see the yeast in the photo.
IMG_3488first_thing_am_4-20_before.jpg

 
Here you can see the yeast as I scraped the top off the left side.
IMG_3491scraped.jpg

 
This is a side view showing the new fermentation bubbles and definite rise in volume overnight.  This is after scraping the top off the 4 bottles.
IMG_3494_new_fermentation_after scrape.jpg

 
 
hi eman!
 
its a nice batch you have there  :dance:
 
For the room temperature you can easily drop the temperature by a few degrees  by putting your jars in a dark cupboard or closet..far from appliance that generate heat like stove ect ..you can also wrap a coton tshirt or something like this around the jars ..i know its seems silly but it helps ..an other thing you can do is to place a fan that will blow on the jar .... if you do the 3 at the same time you can lower the temperature a lot ...one other thing you could do is to put the jar in a cooler with an ice pack but its hard to control the temperature by doing this and the temperature may drop a little bit to much so the ferment will drasticly slow down.
 
As for the fermentation that started to be active again its completely normal ...at first good bacteria started to feed on sugar so there was a lot of activity ...after a while this provess eventualy slow down but since you have added a few more peppers the bacteria just got a little bit hysteric and started to feast on all that new sugar you putted in ;)
 
For the yeast now ..lol ...the picture on the website you posted is quite an advanced stage of yeast infestation and i realy doubt you will get to that point if you are vigilant and scoop the yeast every now and then 
Now that your ferment is infested there is not much you can do to revers the situation but the next time i suggest the you try using a glass weight ...i nevers tried it myself with sauce or paste but my guess is that it could work great .
Just search on google for * lacto-fermentation glass weights* and see if its a solution that can be good for you :)
 
The goal of the weights is to limit the surface that is in contact with oxygen ..since the oxigen (and the potential bacteria it contain) is the main cause for yeast and mold
 
An other solution to prevent the grow of yeast and mold it the use of whats called a pickle pipe, The goal here is again to limit exposition to oxygen ...if you use weights and pipe together you will almost never have any problems 
 
The pickle pipe let the gas out and block oxygen so it wont get in ...after a few hours of fermantation the gas produced by bacterias will flush out oxygen from the jar so during all the fermentation your food is never in contact with oxygen or any microscopic intruders ;)  
 
I hope this will help a little !
 
Have a nice day !
 
Thanks!  Yes that website pic was nasty looking and quite advanced or even moldy.  Yes weights would limit the air exposure for sure.  At some point if there is demand, I'll move up to some better system than this.  For now I think I will be moving the mashes into a fridge to stop this yeast thing going on.
 
For Thailand, yes a fan would help some, but as a "for instance", I have just gotten back to my home office from lunch and it is 85° already in here.  The AC is on again and it IS cooler and dryer than outside even at 85 :)  It will be back down to 75ish soon.
 
Temps are pretty much uniform in our house except the 2nd floor will be a little hotter.  The kitchen is on first floor and gets no direct sun.  I think our fridges run a little warmer than in North America just because of the ambient temps here.  
 
When we are in a room like the kitchen, TV room, etc for any length pf time, we turn on the AC to 75-ish.  Otherwise every room here is the outdoor shade temps which today is over 92.
This is the way it is everyday.  One can't cool their whole house everyday unless they are really rich!  
 
Back
Top