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#21 Mr. West

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Posted 08 July 2018 - 08:42 PM

These seedlings were previously sewn in with a rosemary companion plant.
They came out in a matt created with the rosemary's surface roots in peat,
They were just sewn into the border of a rosemary plant that had recently been potted up.
After they germinated, I started spray-injecting the sides of the pot about 4 inches below soil level, and watering the rosemary slowly and sparsely in the middle of the pot so as not to get any water on the seedlings stems at soil level.
When i transplanted these, they came out in a pieces of a big round, with few tap roots and little to no transplant shock evident.
I think they had formed complex shallow root system with the rosemary's new roots seeking water at the surface.
They've been separated in 34 cups for about 6 days.
Some individuals, but a lot of multiples per cup too.
They look like they're doing ok and growing without any noticeable interruption.
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The last ones pictured, the transplants i just now pricked out by loosening the soil with a stick, prying around roots and lifting by grabbing the stem and shaking lightly.
I had bottom-watered them yesterday. So, they were still moist.
Some good roots. I think they'll all be succesful.
I watered in the soil and packed some dry on top.

Edited by Mr. West, 08 July 2018 - 08:48 PM.


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#22 Mr. West

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Posted 09 July 2018 - 06:05 AM

In-ground plants
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East facing side
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#23 Mr. West

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Posted 09 July 2018 - 09:54 AM

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These are two groups I planted out directly, without first transplanting each to its own container.

#24 Mr. West

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Posted 09 July 2018 - 04:32 PM

Transplanted the 10 from the small green pot.
Was able to tip out the entire soil mass like a typical transplant.
Good roots, all to the bottom of the pot, good time to transplant.
Rotate and pat the sides lightly to loosen the roots from the soil.
I start extracting the outer seedlings.
Resting the soilmass in a larger pot full of soil,
holding the stem below the cotyledon
and teasing out roots about 6" long on all plants.

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#25 Bicycle808

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Posted 10 July 2018 - 10:25 AM

East facing side
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Be careful you don't get lost in that jungle, there.  Plants look great; so lush!


Edited by Bicycle808, 10 July 2018 - 10:26 AM.

You are entering the buttocks with the spicy hand of Chinese pepper? And pleasure from this low pepper? I am not sure but the scorpion pepper musk when raw, is the sexual experience. This is granted, and evident in the taste, and the woman jealous. 


#26 Mr. West

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Posted 11 July 2018 - 12:39 PM

Thanks bicycle. Ya, that section is like a thicket.

I added a new row: just 2 cu ft peat and 2 cups oyster shell flour tilled into the sand.
Some straight peat on top. I'll add granular fertilizer at plant out.
I'm waiting a few weeks to transplant new rounds of starts.

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#27 Mr. West

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Posted 22 July 2018 - 06:07 PM

Planted out 27 solo cups that were all originally in the 2 gal pot (see earlier posts), but with wider spacing this time. They're in sand with 3 cu ft bale of peat tilled in. Amended with oyster shell flour and TM-7. Plant tone 5-3-3 in the bottom of the planting holes, (watered in, thin stream at high pressure). Plugs watered in with fish & seaweed 2-3-1. Top dress with more plant tone. Now it's raining.

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#28 solid7

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Posted 22 July 2018 - 06:47 PM

Just curious why you till...  With so little tilth in the ground to begin with, I always choose to just let everything work its way from the top down.  It looks like you are dealing with pretty much the same thing that I am.


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#29 Mr. West

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Posted 22 July 2018 - 08:15 PM

This is the first time I've done a bed this way. The last couple of times, for the middle rows, i didn't till. Pretty much like you say, with the peat or re-use coco/perlite above sand. There was a thick layer for starts to go in. Those times i just shoveled turf into a pile.
This time i shook all the dirt out of grass clumps and i have them in a pile nearby. Most of the sand was left there, and by adding the volume of peat i got a raised mound slightly above grass level. Didn't incorporate any perlite.
So, the idea in mixing was for the sand to provide drainage for the peat's moisture holding capacity. Because sand doesn't retain nutrients, I wanted to create a more homegenous blend, with peat increasing the CEC and moisture retention in the lower soil to avoid liquid nutrients draining through straight sand.
I mixed dry from the bag and not much rain since that last post. It took some time to prepare the planting holes by wetting and separating the soil repeatedly, before i had deep enough holes for the plugs. After planting, the starts are still in indentations with small mounds between. Even after wetting and preparing the depressions, watering in, then the rain... i would guess the areas between planting holes are still relatively dry below the surface, not at field capacity.

#30 Mr. West

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Posted 23 July 2018 - 06:19 PM

Just curious why you till...  With so little tilth in the ground to begin with, I always choose to just let everything work its way from the top down.  It looks like you are dealing with pretty much the same thing that I am.


Any input is appreciated. I'll be digging another row, maybe tomorrow, and planting out several more.
The approach you mentioned might stimulate more surface/feeder/stabilizing roots, since the top layer is holding all the moisture and the basement is all sand, ya?
It rained throughout last night, and i think the entire plot did end up being wetted down. This morning i mulched with banana leaves and put up shade cloth for the afternoon. Looking good...

#31 solid7

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Posted 23 July 2018 - 09:09 PM

Well, it's FLorida... You can see the growth habit of everything for yourself. Roots really only go where there's tilth. So, that pretty much means flat root mats.

The only real problem that I have with tilling into sand, is that are just diluting the sand with some organic matter. It still ends up percolating itself out of existence is almost no time. So, I'd rather build a really thick layer on top, where most of the roots are going to be, anyway.

When I lived in my other house, I used to bring in about 5 cu yards of horse manure every year, and lay it down over an area about 30'x30'. Literally, the stuff was like 12" thick. By the end of every season, it was about 2" thick on top of the sand, and I'd refresh it again. BUT, what I was finding was that the whole strata was "sinking" into the earth. That was the action of critters, weaving it into the native soil. I actually ended up with some phenomenal fertile ground, after about 4 years of that... (but I kept adding, anyway)
Dave2000 - "Problem is, you happened upon the REAL DEAL."

#32 solid7

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Posted 23 July 2018 - 09:10 PM

I probably should add that I've never actually owned a roto-tiller in my life... I borrowed one once to quick condition some hard packed clay, but that was a one-off. :D
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#33 Mr. West

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Posted 24 July 2018 - 01:02 AM

Makes sense. Good points.
To outline more of my thought process on this, I'm not going large scale, and I'm not concerned with longevity or rebuilding the soil here. This time around, I used the cheapest amendment available and the few bulk ingredients i had remaining from previous builds (OSF & micronutrients with humic).
Budgeting for just enough materials to plant out, I reasoned that the amount of peat i had wouldn't create a deep enough soil cap to completely surround my starts, being in cups. So, rather than relegate the plants to a shallow existence of surface root mats and letting their tap roots struggle through dry sand, I created this ~8" deep mix that harbors the potential for continued downward root growth as well as laterally near the surface. I think this will carry them smoothly into maturity without limiting their terminal height.
Those are just what limited resources i was willing to put in. We'll see how it goes, compared to my previous efforts. I could've borrowed a roto-tiller, but used a shovel and hoe instead.

#34 solid7

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Posted 24 July 2018 - 09:33 AM

Just be aware... Sand is like a black hole for organic matter. Plus, we have constant, uninterrupted microbial activity, due to our year round warm temps.

I'm just saying that if you don't replenish the organic stuff, it's back to desert in short order.
Dave2000 - "Problem is, you happened upon the REAL DEAL."

#35 Mr. West

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Posted 25 July 2018 - 10:26 AM

Point taken.
I decided not to dig another bed. I'll wait for this row of my latest transplants to become more self-sufficient. If any of them flop, then i have my backups. I have at least 28 more that also want out of their cups.
Meanwhile, I reclaimed some perlite from my container garden of herbs. Then I potted up 20 more datils from cups into 1 gal cloth pots instead of going in-ground.
I'm also planning to pot up 13 habaneros from cups straight to 5 gal superoots pots, to stay.

#36 Mr. West

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Posted 28 July 2018 - 05:01 AM

Potted up 15 more out of my 28 in cups. They went into 3 gal black plastic nursery pots with three different types of quality organic potting mixes.
Also, invested in some new genetics:
7 pot yellow
7 pot primo yellow
7 pot barrackpore
7 pot bubblegum
7pot x 7 pot douglah
Sb7j
Scotch brains
SB MOA
SB TFM
Bonda ma jacques
Bahamian goat

Edited by Mr. West, 28 July 2018 - 05:02 AM.


#37 Mr. West

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Posted 12 August 2018 - 07:49 PM

This is what's been happening. The 1 gal smart pots are about ready to graduate. Those that jumped up to 3 gal. I've been watering sparingly around the plug to keep the roots growing without drenching all the media in the pots.

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Edited by Mr. West, 12 August 2018 - 07:52 PM.


#38 Mr. West

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Posted 30 August 2018 - 07:21 PM

I let them get some heavy rainfall a few days ago. The cloth pots were fully saturated. The larger pots appear wet only in the top few inches. I'm still hesitant to drench them because I assume they're not fully rooted in yet (potted up from solo cups beginning august). Also, i dont want to risk root rot considering how long they might take to dry out with the high humidity and consistent rain here. Now I've been putting them on the shelf and pallets for part of the day. The idea is to give them more surrounding airflow, so they can breathe more and stay cooler.

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