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Too Much Vinegar


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#1 emanphoto

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 07:27 AM

My fermented mash had reached a little past it's 30 day mark so it was time to sauce it today.  

 

Made a little booboo in the process though.

 

Instead of calculating the amount of vinegar from the sauce volume once it had gone through my "food mill", I did it when all the seeds etc were still in the mash.  So I have 1200mls of milled sauce with 1000mls of vinegar.  It's a bit too sour.

 

I'd rather dilute by adding more volume in from either more roasted red bells peppers, and/or smoked prik chee fa which is a large milder chile here in Thailand.  This sauce was meant to be milder than the pure Thai chile sauce I have been making.  

 

I also had thought about juicing some carrots as well but first, before I REALLY mess things up, thought I should check in at THP. :)

 

One concern is that any added ingredients won't be fermented.  So I would be interested in hearing about the procedure to do this.  Also, when adding carrots, is the pulp included or is that an "according to taste" kind of thing?

 

Thanks for any help and suggestions.

 

Recipe so far is as follows:

 

Prik chee fa     846gms after smoking

Thai chilies      1.3 KG

4 Red Bell Peppers Burned skin removed  446 gms

Heads of Garlic   6

Shallots               10

Everything after smoking = 2520 grams

 

Sea Salt           75gms

Cups of Water  3

Into food processor and then fermented for 36 days

Mash maintained a pH of 3.2 throughout the fermentation 

 

 

 



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#2 Bold Badger Sauces

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 08:39 AM

If you add any fresh ingredients after fermentation you have to worry about wild yeast getting into the bottle and starting to ferment the sugars, even if the ph is low.  If you cook and bottle it using the hot fill method it will be fine until you open a bottle, then just refrigerate after opening to prevent that.


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#3 dragonsfire

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 09:24 AM

Try adding honey, take a small amount and see how it goes.



#4 emanphoto

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 09:41 PM

If you add any fresh ingredients after fermentation you have to worry about wild yeast getting into the bottle and starting to ferment the sugars, even if the ph is low.  If you cook and bottle it using the hot fill method it will be fine until you open a bottle, then just refrigerate after opening to prevent that.

Thank you BBS!.

Since this batch doesn't need to be bottled anytime soon, I am now going to start a ferment of just:

smoked prik chee fa

roasted red bell pepper 

smoked garlic and shallots

 

I picked up the ingredients last night so today I will smoke, run thru food processor, salt and put in my "fermenting bottle/s".

When this booboo occurred, I had a plan for these to be in bottles by today and had a mild panic.  I then realized that my plan should and can change.

 

So my question is, what does the group think my shortest ferment time could be for this case?

 

I'm hoping for a week to 2 weeks at most.  My usual fermentation time is 30 days as most of the visible activity has long since stopped.  I worry that adding something too soon may bring on the "wild yeast" you mentioned, so adding directly is not an option.  I also think that it might change the flavor too much as well.  

 

I will cook these in my bottling process in any case which is as follows:

 

Clean all bottles

Pour boiling water into each bottle to sterilize

Pour sauce into each bottle

Put all the bottles, with no lid on, into a boiling water bath for 15 minutes

Cap tightly and turn upside down.

 

Thank you for any help!  I appreciate the help here and any comments on my process is welcome.



#5 emanphoto

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 10:29 PM

Try adding honey, take a small amount and see how it goes.

 

You know, that was my first impulse after tasting it.   Although I was thinking brown sugar, honey sounds like a better option and perhaps a better flavor.  

But here's the thing.  Here in Thailand there is sugar in almost everything.  In the dishes themselves, the sauces, etc etc.  Think of that sweet thai sauce with a small amount of chili in it as one example. healthy-boy-thai-sweet-chilli-sauce-1814 

 

They may call this Healthy Boy brand, but it isn't.  It must be really difficult for diabetics here.  Here's the basic recipe which is used on a lot of fried (again not very healthy) food.

Thai Sweet Chili Sauce 

  • 1 cup medium/mild red chilies, chopped.
  • 1-3 Thai chilies, or to taste.
  • 8 cloves garlic, smashed.
  • 1 cup sugar.
  • ⅓ cup water.
  • ¾ cup white vinegar.
  • 1½ tsp fine grain salt.
  • 1 Tbsp tapioca starch dissolved in 3 Tbsp water (or use cornstarch)

 

 The ORIGINAL Sri Racha sauces that come from Sri Racha province are sweet and people there don't like the Huy Fong version!  I think this is partly due to pride, but also tastes.  Like Americans expect ketchup and mustard on their hamburgers, Thais have come to expect certain flavors on their dishes notably from branded sauces.  I don't expect to change that, but I hope to find a niche market that wants flavor & heat without sweetness.  

 

Honey could be a good compromise in the future instead of sugar but for now I want to stay away from even mildly sweet sauces or adding any sweet components.  In some ways I'm still a novice to the process of sauce making, and I want to get the process down where my sauces are consistent batch to batch even though they are "artisan" sauces.   ;)  So far, so good, and fortunately my family can tolerate heat so I can test on them.  

:mouthonfire:

I do find it interesting that I know a LOT of Thai people that cannot tolerate spicy food at all.  Some are older and it's because of health reasons, but I know 4-5 Thai guys who use zero chilies in any of their food.  Also, the expectation is that farang, (westerners) cannot tolerate spicy food.  Then they see me eat lol. ;)


Edited by emanphoto, 14 June 2018 - 10:29 PM.


#6 saiias

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 10:38 PM

I do find it interesting that I know a LOT of Thai people that cannot tolerate spicy food at all.  Some are older and it's because of health reasons, but I know 4-5 Thai guys who use zero chilies in any of their food. 

 That is interesting...



#7 emanphoto

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 10:43 PM

 That is interesting...

Another typical sauce here is chilies in fish sauce.  Basically it is used instead of salt.  Fried rice dishes are pretty bland on their own so it's up to the individual to spice or season it.  I might use a little nam pla, but I mostly scoop out the chilies hehe!  Makes it salty enough.



#8 saiias

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 10:51 PM

Another typical sauce here is chilies in fish sauce.  Basically it is used instead of salt. 

I love me some Som Tum. That is the 1st thing I order when I go to an authentic thai restaurant here.

I think Som Tum has this sauce.. correct?



#9 emanphoto

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 11:05 PM

I don't particularly like som tum which is like sacrilege here, but as a side salad is a enough for me.  I don't get it with the fermented crab in it and same for my wife.  There are countless stands making som tum here and it is made to order in the way you like it.  People stand in line for it.

But as far as the sauce for som tum, I believe it is a combination of fish sauce (nam pla), sugar, and lime juice and chilies.  Yep, googled and this confirms that.  https://food.ndtv.co...ya-salad-408182

 

P1100016.jpg


Edited by emanphoto, 14 June 2018 - 11:07 PM.


#10 dragonsfire

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Posted 15 June 2018 - 09:40 AM

White Sugar is the poor mans cocaine, the industry cant keep up with the demand, its put in everything because its addictive. They discovered putting it in cigarettes makes people addicted much faster to them.


Edited by dragonsfire, 15 June 2018 - 09:41 AM.





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