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Fertilizing soil vs soilless


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#1 CanadaChili

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Posted 27 July 2018 - 10:11 AM

Oddly enough, I first started growing peppers in hydroponics and soilless (ie. peat-based) mixes and I'm just beginning to grow my chilies directly in the soil.
When fertilizing in the soil, is it only necessary to provide additional NPK as opposed to supplying all nutrients (molybdenum, zinc or copper for eg) in soilless? If I were to be fertilizing a plant with 1000ppm of fertilizer, would the same plant in soil require only a fraction of that?

Thanks in advance and happy gardening

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#2 rickster

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Posted 27 July 2018 - 11:23 AM

just use a good organic tomato fert


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#3 CanadaChili

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Posted 27 July 2018 - 11:53 AM

just use a good organic tomato fert

Oh right, I think I've seen those before. 4-3-3?

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#4 Edmick

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Posted 27 July 2018 - 11:56 AM

Good question. One would think soil already has sufficient micro nutrients but I think the only way to tell would be to have your soil tested

#5 CanadaChili

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Posted 27 July 2018 - 02:13 PM

Thanks. I have a bunch of hydro fertilizers kicking around and like to use those ones up first. Generally speaking, would it make sense to scale back nutrient strength when feeding plants in soil? To what degree I'll have to test that myself.

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#6 solid7

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Posted 27 July 2018 - 02:21 PM

Oh right, I think I've seen those before. 4-3-3?

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Just any organic fert.  You'll be hard pressed to see the difference between one organic dry fertilizer and another, unless there's something more than just NPK in it.

 

I do a liquid feed every week or two in my raised beds.  I use the recommended dosage for intermediate stage plants.  I mean, where I live, it rains so much, that there's no point in dumping gallons of nutrients in, that I'm going to have to continually replenish.  I prefer liquid nutrients, because critters don't dig everything up, like they do when I used dry ferts.   2 days ago, a raccoon totally dug up a new plant out...  Wouldn't have happened with the liquid nutes.


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#7 Chilidude

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Posted 27 July 2018 - 02:22 PM

Thanks. I have a bunch of hydro fertilizers kicking around and like to use those ones up first. Generally speaking, would it make sense to scale back nutrient strength when feeding plants in soil? To what degree I'll have to test that myself.

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50% would be a pretty good baseline for using hydronutes in soil.



#8 solid7

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Posted 27 July 2018 - 02:22 PM

Planting in soil, you'll get a ton of added benefit by mulching around your plants.  Put dry fertilizer under the mulch layer. (no matter what kind you end up using)  


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#9 CanadaChili

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Posted 27 July 2018 - 02:33 PM

 
Just any organic fert.  You'll be hard pressed to see the difference between one organic dry fertilizer and another, unless there's something more than just NPK in it.
 
I do a liquid feed every week or two in my raised beds.  I use the recommended dosage for intermediate stage plants.  I mean, where I live, it rains so much, that there's no point in dumping gallons of nutrients in, that I'm going to have to continually replenish.  I prefer liquid nutrients, because critters don't dig everything up, like they do when I used dry ferts.   2 days ago, a raccoon totally dug up a new plant out...  Wouldn't have happened with the liquid nutes.

Just out of curiosity what do you use for your liquid feed?

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#10 ShowMeDaSauce

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Posted 27 July 2018 - 02:35 PM

A good cheap dry organic is alfalfa meal. Slow to release/work though. Farm and Feed stores sell 50lb bags cheap. Its very good for adding to your compost pile also.



#11 CanadaChili

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Posted 27 July 2018 - 02:35 PM

 
50% would be a pretty good baseline for using hydronutes in soil.

Alright thanks! I never use the manufacturer's dosing recommendations as they are almost always too strong. I'll just start light and scale up nutrient strength as needed

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#12 solid7

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Posted 27 July 2018 - 02:54 PM

Just out of curiosity what do you use for your liquid feed?

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Alaska Fish 5-1-1 is my go-to.  It's cheap, readily available, lasts a long time, and WORKS.  It's especially great in soil, because N is the nutrient you'll need to replenish the most.   P and K are already abundant in most soils, and don't really need much replenishing.


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#13 CanadaChili

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Posted 27 July 2018 - 02:57 PM

 
Alaska Fish 5-1-1 is my go-to.  It's cheap, readily available, lasts a long time, and WORKS.  It's especially great in soil, because N is the nutrient you'll need to replenish the most.   P and K are already abundant in most soils, and don't really need much replenishing.

I've heard lots of good things with the fish ferts, besides the smell. Are you switching that out with something containing less nitrogen when your plants start blooming?

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#14 ShowMeDaSauce

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Posted 27 July 2018 - 03:01 PM

Fish emulsion is the main thing i use in ground too. I change nothing during blooming/budding. Liquid kelp is also a good addition to the fish emulsion. Kelp meal if you can get it cheap enough.



#15 Burning Colon

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Posted 27 July 2018 - 03:12 PM

when you say soil are you talking in ground or in container?

 


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#16 CanadaChili

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Posted 27 July 2018 - 03:13 PM

when you say soil are you talking in ground or in container?
 

In the ground

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#17 solid7

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Posted 27 July 2018 - 03:27 PM

I've heard lots of good things with the fish ferts, besides the smell. Are you switching that out with something containing less nitrogen when your plants start blooming?

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No, because the idea of switching to "bloom" mode is pure myth.  It's a marketing gimmick.

Fish fert only smells bad before you dilute it.  Once it's watered in, it's not even noticeable.


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#18 CanadaChili

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Posted 27 July 2018 - 11:58 PM

 
No, because the idea of switching to "bloom" mode is pure myth.  It's a marketing gimmick.
Fish fert only smells bad before you dilute it.  Once it's watered in, it's not even noticeable.

Too much nitrogen doesn't cause blossom drop? So a x(3-1-2) would be suitable throughout the entire growing season?

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#19 solid7

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Posted 28 July 2018 - 08:19 AM

Too much nitrogen doesn't cause blossom drop? So a x(3-1-2) would be suitable throughout the entire growing season?

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Sure, too much nitrogen causes blossom drop - in the same way that driving your car too fast into a wall will cause the car to wrinkle up.  That is, you'd have to overdo it to the point of toxicity.  This is easy to do with either salt-based ferts, or ammonium based (manure).  But if you use the recommended amount of 3-1-2 - or even a little more - you're going to be just fine.  Good luck overdosing, if you use any other organic source.

.

I have heard this nitrogen rumor for years, but nobody ever bothered to tell my garden, because she just keeps on cranking them out...

.

I mentioned the Alaska Fish earlier for soil, but in containers, or raised beds, I also rotate with a 3-1-2.  I rotate organic and inorganic nutrient sources, but it has nothing to do with nutrient cycling, for me.


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#20 CanadaChili

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Posted 28 July 2018 - 08:43 AM

 
Sure, too much nitrogen causes blossom drop - in the same way that driving your car too fast into a wall will cause the car to wrinkle up.  That is, you'd have to overdo it to the point of toxicity.  This is easy to do with either salt-based ferts, or ammonium based (manure).  But if you use the recommended amount of 3-1-2 - or even a little more - you're going to be just fine.  Good luck overdosing, if you use any other organic source.
.
I have heard this nitrogen rumor for years, but nobody ever bothered to tell my garden, because she just keeps on cranking them out...
.
I mentioned the Alaska Fish earlier for soil, but in containers, or raised beds, I also rotate with a 3-1-2.  I rotate organic and inorganic nutrient sources, but it has nothing to do with nutrient cycling, for me.

Interesting...I appreciate the advice. Funny that you say that because I have grown habs in a nutrient flow hydro setup and they shared the same nutrients as lettuce and Swiss chard. Basically the overall ratio was more or less balanced with a little more nitrogen to green everything up. Thing grew into a tree and it didn't seem to affect the production.
Cheers

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