breeding Chiltepin cross

Jubnat · Aug 14, 2018

SpeakPolish said:
As I said wild peppers tend to have dominant genes. So basically in the F1 stage it's a Cumari Pollux. But in the next generation it will explode with crazy varieties. Also what peppers did you breed, the Cumari Pollux and what else.

b3rnd said:
Wow, that's interesting! I just made them this year, so I still have to grow them out. Which crosses did you make?

Interesting, I can't wait to see what happens with these. I made Aji Angelo x Cumari Pollux and Cumari Pollux x Pimenta da Neyde.

Last year I crossed Cumari Pollux with Aji lemon drop, Aji Amarillo, Aji Ahuachapan.

I wonder why wild types have dominant genes. Do you have any articles to link that would explain that?

thefish · Aug 14, 2018

Jubnat said:
Last year I crossed Cumari Pollux with Aji lemon drop, Aji Amarillo, Aji Ahuachapan.

I wonder why wild types have dominant genes. Do you have any articles to link that would explain that?

people looking to create really novel hybrids often search for "land-race" or naturalized varieties of plants because they typically have a higher amount of genetic diversity compared to typical hybrids. they may have different growth habits, appearance, secondary compounds or other traits that you simply wouldn't find in a domesticated plant. what happens when too much hybridization occurs is that over time we as breeders tend to inadvertently or deliberately select for certain traits and the plants become less genetically variable and certain traits all but disappear. you cant recover these traits because all similar varieties or crossing partners have been been bred similarly and the just aren't prevalent. there is a lot of information online and in libraries about plant breeding and its hard to summarize in a paragraph. some of it can get quite complex and require thousands and thousands of crosses and diligent selection and culling to reach a particular breeding goal.

b3rnd · Aug 15, 2018

Jubnat said:
Last year I crossed Cumari Pollux with Aji lemon drop, Aji Amarillo, Aji Ahuachapan.

I wonder why wild types have dominant genes. Do you have any articles to link that would explain that?

Do you have any pictures of those? I'd love to know what I can expect when I grow out the first generation.

Jubnat · Aug 15, 2018

b3rnd said:
Do you have any pictures of those? I'd love to know what I can expect when I grow out the first generation.

Well, right now, at F1, they mostly just look exactly like the Cumari Pollux, if not with very slightly larger fruit. I was worried seeing one of the Cumari Pollux mother crosses, thinking it didn't actually work, and was just self pollinated. But, one of the Lemon Drop mother crosses started to fruit, and it looked the same...and the rest seem to be following suit. So, next year should hopefully be much more exciting than this.

b3rnd · Aug 15, 2018

Jubnat said:
Well, right now, at F1, they mostly just look exactly like the Cumari Pollux, if not with very slightly larger fruit. I was worried seeing one of the Cumari Pollux mother crosses, thinking it didn't actually work, and was just self pollinated. But, one of the Lemon Drop mother crosses started to fruit, and it looked the same...and the rest seem to be following suit. So, next year should hopefully be much more exciting than this.

Pretty funky that the F1 is almost exactly Cumari Pollux. I did a quick search on dominant wild genes in Capsicum but I haven't found a lot yet.

What made you decide to cross with Cumari Pollux? I really like the way they grow and I love the pubescence of the stems, but with me, it was more curiosity than anything. I also wanted to try some crosses with CAP 214 (wild C. Baccatum var. Baccatum) but I'm going to postpone that until next season.

SpeakPolish · Aug 15, 2018

b3rnd said:
Pretty funky that the F1 is almost exactly Cumari Pollux. I did a quick search on dominant wild genes in Capsicum but I haven't found a lot yet.

What made you decide to cross with Cumari Pollux? I really like the way they grow and I love the pubescence of the stems, but with me, it was more curiosity than anything. I also wanted to try some crosses with CAP 214 (wild C. Baccatum var. Baccatum) but I'm going to postpone that until next season.

Well I'll try to explain it to you.

1. Imagine a recessive gene pops up. It's a gene that makes peppers not be spicy, let's call it c. The capsaicin producing gene is C.
2. Since the pepper is not spicy then it has to have two recessive genes, let's call that allele cc. Now that pepper would probably get pollinated by another pepper since wild fruits easily cross-pollinate. The pepper that produced the pollen probably would be a spicy or a capsaicin producing pepper since mutations that cause recessive genes are rare . So it's CC. The seeds produced from that outcome are Cc.
3. Now repeat step 2 but use the Cc as the mother plant, you get a 50/50 chance of getting a Cc or CC allele. So far half the descendants are CC.
4. Repeat step 3, now 3/4th's of the descendants are CC.
5. Do this for several hundred thousand to million years.
6. Until humans showed up and decided they like non spicy peppers, or yellow peppers, large peppers the recessive genes got "lost" in the gene pool since they happen because of mutations and are easily wiped out.

b3rnd · Aug 15, 2018

SpeakPolish said:
Well I'll try to explain it to you.

1. Imagine a recessive gene pops up. It's a gene that makes peppers not be spicy, let's call it c. The capsaicin producing gene is C.
2. Since the pepper is not spicy then it has to have two recessive genes, let's call that allele cc. Now that pepper would probably get pollinated by another pepper since wild fruits easily cross-pollinate. The pepper that produced the pollen probably would be a spicy or a capsaicin producing pepper since mutations that cause recessive genes are rare . So it's CC. The seeds produced from that outcome are Cc.
3. Now repeat step 2 but use the Cc as the mother plant, you get a 50/50 chance of getting a Cc or CC allele. So far half the descendants are CC.
4. Repeat step 3, now 3/4th's of the descendants are CC.
5. Do this for several hundred thousand to million years.
6. Until humans showed up and decided they like non spicy peppers, or yellow peppers, large peppers the recessive genes got "lost" in the gene pool since they happen because of mutations and are easily wiped out.

Thanks for the effort. I do know some things about basic genetics, I just didn't know wild traits were by definition dominant. Your timeline is a bit off by the way; the general consensus is that humans started domesticated peppers a little over 6000 years ago. Hopefully I can get some nice results from these crosses!

SpeakPolish · Aug 15, 2018

b3rnd said:
Thanks for the effort. I do know some things about basic genetics, I just didn't know wild traits were by definition dominant. Your timeline is a bit off by the way; the general consensus is that humans started domesticated peppers a little over 6000 years ago. Hopefully I can get some nice results from these crosses!

No, I am talking about wild peppers, the ancestor of all Capsicum peppers lived about 2 million years ago