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fermenting Starting my first ferment. Could I get some tips? Photo added.

M

mtj

Hey. I started my first ferment 3 days ago.
 
Ingredients I used:
3 red peppers, 1 yellow bell pepper, 6 garlic cloves, 1/2 red onion, 2-3% brine and whatever I had left of my last harvest of peppers (reapers, habaneros and bhut yolokia yellows)
I made a cross with chopsticks and put them in the jar to keep everything submerged, put plastic bag on top and "seal" with rubber band.
 
What I might have done wrong (I think) is that I boiled water before adding salt to it, then poured it hot in the jar over the rest of the ingredients. I was afraid that unboiled water might "contaminate" the product. As I said, this is my first time fermenting anything really, so I'm aware that there is a possibility I made some mistakes that might completely ruin the final product.
 
This has been sitting on window shelf for the last 3 days, temperature is constant around 18-20°C. The pics were taken today, and I still see no signs of fermentation. Did I do everything right? Also, is there anything you would change? I know I could do a lot better, but I only used equipment I found at home. Suggestions/tips would be greatly appreciated.
 
EDIT: CARROTS!!! I forgot! I also added carrots :D
 

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hey mtj,
 
boiling water before adding salt to make a brine to add to your ingredients before fermenting was NOT wrong.  the improvised chopstick device to keep everything submerged was also not wrong.  the plastic bag w the rubber band and sandwich bag isn't great, but also not the worst thing you could have done.
 
2-3% brine, sitting on a window shelf in view of the sun - *potentially* bad things.  I usually shoot for 4% salt by weight of ingredients minimum.  I also store my ferments away from sunlight (usually in a cupboard or on the counter away from the side of the house that gets sunlight.  
 
3 days in and no "obvious signs of fermentation" is not at all out of the realm of possibility.  Pepper ferments are by far the LEAST active of all the ferments I've done over the past 5-10 years.  
 
Advice:  
 
1. Use a bit more salt.  (no don't add more to this one as it's already going and I don't want you removing that rubber band to let more air into that ferment).
 
2. Get yourself a proper airlock.  There are myriad options available out there for very cheap and will be worth it in the long run.
 
3. Procure a Ph meter to monitor acid levels in your ferments and sauces, etc.  Again not an expensive investment that will pay off many fold just as the airlocks recommended above.
 
For your current ferment:  
 
Pull it from sunlight to a place without light - doesn't need to be dark - just not in full sunlight.  Let it run as is for another 2-3 weeks, then pull and process as you wish provided pH is on point.  Post back with your results..
 
By the end of the month I think if you pull that, blend it all really well, bring it to a slow boil on the stove top and then taste & adjust w a bit of sweet/salt/sour (like vinegar) you'll have a pretty dynamite hot sauce that you never thought you'd come up with.  
 
And make sure to write all the ingredients down!  :)
 
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You're doing just fine. That's how I do mine, just like you're doing and having great success.
It's the ghetto method and works just great without the fancy setups and equipment stuff. No problems.
 
I followed Amanda's method and technique as described on her ferment website:  We Can Phickle That! 
She's fermented with even the cheapest iodized salt you can find, all without fail.
I just followed her way to ferment as shown on her website.  It's real easy.
 
To keep everything submerged I'm using sticks also, from an oak tree.
 
Her method to ferment hot peppers and sauces >    http://phickle.com/we-can-phickle-that-hot-pepper-sauce/
 
 
 
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In addition to what (the vastly more experienced) SmokenFire said, you may see some white, almost stringy (not really "fuzzy") kahm yeast. This isn't a dealbreaker, but, and I defer to SmokenFire on this on whether or not I'm correct, you'll want to skim this off to prevent it adding an unfavorable flavor to your ferment. If you do remove your seal to do this - again, defer to a more experienced fermenter than myself - I'd add a higher-salt-percentage brine to the top as well as replacing with a better airlock. Minimize exposure to air, and thoroughly clean any tools you use. I successfully stopped a ferment from growing more kahm yeast doing this... and I've also failed using this method as well.

As for the timing - since it doesn't seem you used a starter, it might be weeks before you see any activity at all. I know I got worried when I didn't see anything for three weeks in one of my ferments, as my first two only took a couple of days.
 
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He did say he poured the boiling brine over the ingredients, do you guys think he killed off the lactobacillus?

I added probiotics to mine and it was overflowing in 2 days, I know some here recommend adding them and some don't.

I would sick with smokenfire's recommendations for this batch.
 
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First let me say thanks to every single one of you guys, you rock! I appreciate it!
SmokenFire said:
hey mtj,
 
boiling water before adding salt to make a brine to add to your ingredients before fermenting was NOT wrong.  the improvised chopstick device to keep everything submerged was also not wrong.  the plastic bag w the rubber band and sandwich bag isn't great, but also not the worst thing you could have done.
 
2-3% brine, sitting on a window shelf in view of the sun - *potentially* bad things.  I usually shoot for 4% salt by weight of ingredients minimum.  I also store my ferments away from sunlight (usually in a cupboard or on the counter away from the side of the house that gets sunlight.  
 
3 days in and no "obvious signs of fermentation" is not at all out of the realm of possibility.  Pepper ferments are by far the LEAST active of all the ferments I've done over the past 5-10 years.  
 
Advice:  
 
1. Use a bit more salt.  (no don't add more to this one as it's already going and I don't want you removing that rubber band to let more air into that ferment).
 
2. Get yourself a proper airlock.  There are myriad options available out there for very cheap and will be worth it in the long run.
 
3. Procure a Ph meter to monitor acid levels in your ferments and sauces, etc.  Again not an expensive investment that will pay off many fold just as the airlocks recommended above.
 
For your current ferment:  
 
Pull it from sunlight to a place without light - doesn't need to be dark - just not in full sunlight.  Let it run as is for another 2-3 weeks, then pull and process as you wish provided pH is on point.  Post back with your results..
 
By the end of the month I think if you pull that, blend it all really well, bring it to a slow boil on the stove top and then taste & adjust w a bit of sweet/salt/sour (like vinegar) you'll have a pretty dynamite hot sauce that you never thought you'd come up with.  
 
And make sure to write all the ingredients down!  :)
Click to expand...
 
I will definitely buy some proper equipment if I continue with fermenting in future, including airlocks. I made 2-3% taking into account ONLY water without ingredients...
Up to now I used litmus strips...I know it's not the most accurate way of measuring pH, but for my cooked sauces it worked.
 
How does adding more salt reflect on the final product?
 
Salderas said:
You're doing just fine. That's how I do mine, just like you're doing and having great success.
It's the ghetto method and works just great without the fancy setups and equipment stuff. No problems.
 
I followed Amanda's method and technique as described on her ferment website:  We Can Phickle That! 
She's fermented with even the cheapest iodized salt you can find, all without fail.
I just followed her way to ferment as shown on her website.  It's real easy.
 
To keep everything submerged I'm using sticks also, from an oak tree.
 
Her method to ferment hot peppers and sauces >    http://phickle.com/we-can-phickle-that-hot-pepper-sauce/
 
 
Click to expand...
Will check that out, definitely. Thanks!
 
Pharthan said:
In addition to what (the vastly more experienced) SmokenFire said, you may see some white, almost stringy (not really "fuzzy") kahm yeast. This isn't a dealbreaker, but, and I defer to SmokenFire on this on whether or not I'm correct, you'll want to skim this off to prevent it adding an unfavorable flavor to your ferment. If you do remove your seal to do this - again, defer to a more experienced fermenter than myself - I'd add a higher-salt-percentage brine to the top as well as replacing with a better airlock. Minimize exposure to air, and thoroughly clean any tools you use. I successfully stopped a ferment from growing more kahm yeast doing this... and I've also failed using this method as well.

As for the timing - since it doesn't seem you used a starter, it might be weeks before you see any activity at all. I know I got worried when I didn't see anything for three weeks in one of my ferments, as my first two only took a couple of days.
Click to expand...
 
DO you mean adding some more salt NOW, while the fermentation is already ongoing?
Walchit said:
He did say he poured the boiling brine over the ingredients, do you guys think he killed off the lactobacillus?

I added probiotics to mine and it was overflowing in 2 days, I know some here recommend adding them and some don't.

I would sick with smokenfire's recommendations for this batch.
Click to expand...
That was exactly my concern...thinking I might have killed all the good bacteria pouring hot water over the ingredients.
 
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As SmokenFire said, don't add more salt just yet - if you don't get kahm yeast and your pH is fine, don't worry. It's when you get kahm yeast that you have to start to worry about flavor - but not about health. You worry about health when you get other kinds of mold/nasties.

You *may* have killed lactobacillius. You may not know for weeks, though.
I would wait, if I were you. See what happens.
 
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Hey guys. Here's an update on my ferment and I would love to hear some feedback. Let me first mention that I noticed some bubbling 2 weeks after I started my ferment, but now, almost 2 months since I've started I can no longer see any bubbles forming (they only appeared for few days if Im not mistaken).
 
Pics below:
 
First pic was taken on 6th of February. I noticed fluffy particles that can be seen on both photos. Is that OK? How can I know that the whole batch hasn't gone wrong?
 
Second pic was taken today, 3rd of March. Some bright spots can be seen on the vegetable. What is it? 
 
As there's been almost 2 months since I've started fermentation process, I'm thinking about blending everything and making sauce next week. How do I know whether the ingredients are still OK and that ferment hasn't gone bad? As you already know, I had it covered with plastic bag. On that bag I noticed a small whole few weeks after I've started so I put another bag over it. Sometimes some of the peppers floated on the surface so I had to sink it again by diving my hand through the plastic bag and sinking them. This is also one of the actions that might have spoiled the whole process. Let me know what you think.
 

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Cloudy brine isn't usually an issue, though it might be kahm yeast.  The picture isn't clear enough for me to say.  You may want to refer to this sauerkraut site that covers many things that happen with ferments - though its dedicated to cabbage pepper ferments are quite similar in my experience.  Hope this helps. 
 
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Alright this is it. This has been sitting on the shelf for two and a half months. I think it should be ready now. I took few more pictures (clearer hopefully this time) in case you guys see anything unusual or wrong with the ferment. I opened my plastic bag "lid", some vegetables were sticking out of the brine, but there seem to be no mold anyway. The brine is cloudy and brownish, and not slimy or anything. The thing smells of pickles (hate the smell tbh haha) and at first sight nothing looks wrong with the ferment. I'm attaching few of the photos for you guys to see. (the white dots on vegetable and the fluffy parts that sank down to the bottom of the jar are the only things that worry me).
 
I already blended everything wihout brine and measured the pH and it's sitting between 3-4 and I left the mix in the fridge, waiting for your answer.
 
If you find everything ok, should I proceed as normal with non-fermented sauces? (boil and simmer, add sugar, vinegar, lime juice etc and hot fill it?)
 
 
IMGUR ALBUM HERE: https://imgur.com/a/oIiAAWd
 
 
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If you find everything ok, should I proceed as normal with non-fermented sauces? (boil and simmer, add sugar, vinegar, lime juice etc and hot fill it?)
 

 
Yup that's what I would do with this mtj.  Please make sure to update the thread with the final results.  :)
 
 
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mtj said:
Alright this is it. This has been sitting on the shelf for two and a half months. I think it should be ready now. I took few more pictures (clearer hopefully this time) in case you guys see anything unusual or wrong with the ferment. I opened my plastic bag "lid", some vegetables were sticking out of the brine, but there seem to be no mold anyway. The brine is cloudy and brownish, and not slimy or anything. The thing smells of pickles (hate the smell tbh haha) and at first sight nothing looks wrong with the ferment. I'm attaching few of the photos for you guys to see. (the white dots on vegetable and the fluffy parts that sank down to the bottom of the jar are the only things that worry me).
 
I already blended everything wihout brine and measured the pH and it's sitting between 3-4 and I left the mix in the fridge, waiting for your answer.
 
If you find everything ok, should I proceed as normal with non-fermented sauces? (boil and simmer, add sugar, vinegar, lime juice etc and hot fill it?)
 
 
IMGUR ALBUM HERE: https://imgur.com/a/oIiAAWd
 
Click to expand...
 

Cloudy brine tends to happen when you use salt that isn't pickling salt. It's fine.
Generally speaking, give it a sniff. If it smells fine ("like pickles" is okay), and doesn't smell like nasty mold, it's fine.
With a pH between 3.0 and 4.0, it's probably shelf-stable. If you boil and simmer it, definitely shelf-stable. You don't have to boil it if you don't want to, but it's safer, and depending on components can help bring out some flavor.
 
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Pharthan said:
 
Cloudy brine tends to happen when you use salt that isn't pickling salt. It's fine.
Generally speaking, give it a sniff. If it smells fine ("like pickles" is okay), and doesn't smell like nasty mold, it's fine.
With a pH between 3.0 and 4.0, it's probably shelf-stable. If you boil and simmer it, definitely shelf-stable. You don't have to boil it if you don't want to, but it's safer, and depending on components can help bring out some flavor.
Click to expand...
Thanks for your reply! It smelled fine and absolutely no smell of mold or anything like it. Will I ruin the ferment if I add additional sugar and non fermented fruit for sweetness and boil it up? The whole batch is a bit too salty and sour and would have to thin it a bith with more liquid.
 
I don't know if adding non fermented ingredients have any impact when added to fermented ingredients.
 
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It's this time of the year again.  Have tonnes of chilli pods in my freezer, thinking about using third for fermentation.
 
Last year's batch was great. I added some fresh veggies to it and boil the hot fill it. This year I'm planning to do the same. I have few questions though:
 
1. Should I boil drinking tap water for fermenting?
2. Should I use "demineralized water" for this?
3. How strong brine should I make? Also, should I take into account salt to all ingredients or to water added ratio?
4. Before fermentation everything needs to be sterilised to my understanding. How about vegetable itself and water you add for the brine? Surely these can contain bacteria that could spoil end result?
 
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From just having read this, the biggest change I would make is not hot-filling the ferment. Using boiled tap water is great, but I'd definitely let it cool to room temps before introducing it to the ferment. Don't pasteurize or weaken the bacteria you need for the ferment with still-hot water.  I'll boil at night and leave the pot covered to use the water in the morning or vise versa. Depending on how hot your fill was, this could have delayed your onset of active ferment.
 
A general clean/rinse with water on smooth-skinned vegetables should be fine. Sanitize/sterilize your equipment and cutting surface.  I'd I'd aim toward the high end of your salt scale (3.0% or perhaps 3.5%) by the total weight of water plus veggies.  Contaminants on the veggies can ruin your ferment, but you're trying to create the most favorable conditions for the good stuff and least favorable for the bad stuff, so usually the good guys will win.
 
Seems like it went well last time, I'd just avoid the hot water and maybe tweak the salt level a bit.
 
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CaneDog said:
From just having read this, the biggest change I would make is not hot-filling the ferment. Using boiled tap water is great, but I'd definitely let it cool to room temps before introducing it to the ferment. Don't pasteurize or weaken the bacteria you need for the ferment with still-hot water.  I'll boil at night and leave the pot covered to use the water in the morning or vise versa. Depending on how hot your fill was, this could have delayed your onset of active ferment.
 
A general clean/rinse with water on smooth-skinned vegetables should be fine. Sanitize/sterilize your equipment and cutting surface.  I'd I'd aim toward the high end of your salt scale (3.0% or perhaps 3.5%) by the total weight of water plus veggies.  Contaminants on the veggies can ruin your ferment, but you're trying to create the most favorable conditions for the good stuff and least favorable for the bad stuff, so usually the good guys will win.
 
Seems like it went well last time, I'd just avoid the hot water and maybe tweak the salt level a bit.
Click to expand...
Many thanks for your suggestions! Will definitely leave the water to cool down over night. 
 
Regarding the "smooth-skinned" veggies you mentioned...this might be completely unrelated, but I've heard from others to use only peppers with smooth skin in general (even for non fermented sauce). As it's pretty late in the season, I harvested all of my pods (even green) and put them inside the paper bag to ripen. They do get ripe but their skin get's a bit wrinkly or dried up but overall pods look healthy. These are still okay to be used for fermenting, no?
 
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The concern is that as peppers age the potential for mold and such having started to develop increases. A little softness should be ok, just give them a look over and inside as you slice them.  I'll chuck out pods if they look "too soft" but I'm not fanatical about leaving in only perfect pods. Also, getting your ferment to start activity ASAP should help, as should a slightly higher salt content (although this can act against start-speed), if some of your pods are marginal.
 
When I said "smooth-skinned" I was thinking of things more like a pineapple skin, which I'd scrub well with a brush to clean out the nooks and crannies as much as possible.
 
Now you've got me thinking I should get another ferment or two going this weekend.
 
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CaneDog said:
The concern is that as peppers age the potential for mold and such having started to develop increases. A little softness should be ok, just give them a look over and inside as you slice them.  I'll chuck out pods if they look "too soft" but I'm not fanatical about leaving in only perfect pods. Also, getting your ferment to start activity ASAP should help, as should a slightly higher salt content (although this can act against start-speed), if some of your pods are marginal.
 
When I said "smooth-skinned" I was thinking of things more like a pineapple skin, which I'd scrub well with a brush to clean out the nooks and crannies as much as possible.
 
Now you've got me thinking I should get another ferment or two going this weekend.
Click to expand...
If there's any existing mold in peppers, will it get destroyed when frozen or once fermentation starts? Just out of curiosity. Nevertheless, I split open every single pod anyway.
 
"Now you've got me thinking I should get another ferment or two going this weekend."
 
You're welcome haha
 
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If there's any visible mold, exclude the pod.  Once the ferm starts producing CO2 it will form a protective CO2 layer immediately above the brine surface - CO2 being heavier than air will settle like a blanket on the brine surface and displace the atmosphere that contains available oxygen.  Fungal spores under the brine level or within the CO2 blanket will have their development retarded by the anaerobic conditions and the Lactobacilli will flourish.  The saltiness of the brine will have a retardant affect on the development of undesirables and, though to a lesser extent, on the Lactobacilli.
 
I have a couple pounds of bahamian goats just staring at me right now as I type.  I think they're headed for a salt-water swim. :)
 
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