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Whiteflies? Fungal disease? Something is wrong...

whiteflies fungal disease powdery mildew aphids leaf drop

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#1 YourPalSal

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Posted 28 May 2019 - 09:08 PM

Hi guys,

I am new to the forum and Im sure these questions come up constantly, so I apologize in advance. Ive tried to research what might be going on, and I am thinking its either whiteflies, a fungal infection, or both. The first picture is of how the these plants looked about a week ago, and as you can see they appear healthy. The issues that you see in the other pictures have come on swiftly and have resulted in both leaf and blossom drop. I believe Ive seen a few whiteflies on the plants but have been regularly applying Neem Oil Extract at 4 tbsp per gallon of water every 3 or so days since the issues arose. Earlier on when the plants were smaller (2 months ago or so) I had an aphid infestation which was all cleared up prior to this, also using neem oil.

Any ideas on whats going on? Am I applying too much neem oil? Are the plants even salvageable? Lastly, I am in Phoenix and the plants get sun from about 6 am - 1:30 pm daily. The growing medium is a MiracleGro raised bed soil variety and Ive scaled back watering due to the water retention habit of the soil and the unusually cool spring we have had. Thanks in advance!

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Edited by YourPalSal, 28 May 2019 - 09:12 PM.


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#2 moruga welder

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Posted 28 May 2019 - 09:10 PM

:welcome: ! think theres a good chance theres a bad fungus ,  



#3 YourPalSal

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Posted 28 May 2019 - 09:13 PM

:welcome: ! think theres a good chance theres a bad fungus ,  


Thank you! That is what I am fearing, but hoping not. Hoping there is something I can do to save them...

#4 nmlarson

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Posted 28 May 2019 - 09:46 PM

One question.... Your plants haven't seen the light of day while they're still wet from the Neem application, right? They sort of look like they've been "burned" like when a plant is in sunlight before the Neem has dried.

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#5 YourPalSal

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Posted 28 May 2019 - 10:03 PM

One question.... Your plants haven't seen the light of day while they're still wet from the Neem application, right? They sort of look like they've been "burned" like when a plant is in sunlight before the Neem has dried.


I think they may have. I only spray them in the evenings, but the leaves remain coated throughout the next few days. Perhaps the concentration is too strong?

#6 nmlarson

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Posted 29 May 2019 - 07:36 AM

I think they may have. I only spray them in the evenings, but the leaves remain coated throughout the next few days. Perhaps the concentration is too strong?

 

If they are still wet when the sun comes up the next day, you're burning them.  If this IS the case, are you able to move them somewhere where they're in the shade...to give them a chance to try to recover?

 

Still, that doesn't explain that foamy looking spot on one of the leaves.  You've got something else going on there, too.


Edited by nmlarson, 29 May 2019 - 07:37 AM.

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#7 YourPalSal

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Posted 29 May 2019 - 11:30 AM

 
If they are still wet when the sun comes up the next day, you're burning them.  If this IS the case, are you able to move them somewhere where they're in the shade...to give them a chance to try to recover?
 
Still, that doesn't explain that foamy looking spot on one of the leaves.  You've got something else going on there, too.

Thanks for the recommendation. I ended up spraying them down with a hose last night to try and remove the sticky residue left over from the neem oil application - I think I need to dilute it more because it is leaving way too much residue and Im sure youre right about the leaves burning. I can definitely move them into a shaded area for a while, too. Ive been removing the damaged leaves whenever possible as well. Is there a good fungicide or something else that might possibly help? The plants are losing so many leaves that Im sure the existing peppers would get sun scald sooner or later.

Edited by YourPalSal, 29 May 2019 - 11:32 AM.


#8 nmlarson

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Posted 29 May 2019 - 01:59 PM

Neem is a pretty good fungicide, IF you follow the directions.  My next best suggestion would be to seek out a Master Gardener from your local state ag extension office.  Or, take some very good close up photos of the plants and head to your best local nursery/greenhouse and ask someone there.  Whatever you do, don't take the plant to the nursery.  They won't look to kindly on that.


Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it.        Robert Heinlein


#9 solid7

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Posted 29 May 2019 - 05:22 PM

Your Neem concentration is too strong, to be sure.

.

Are you emulsifying the Neem, or just putting it in water?


Dave2000 - "Problem is, you happened upon the REAL DEAL."

#10 Masher

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Posted 29 May 2019 - 06:12 PM

Just a couple thoughts on what I'm seeing.

4 Tbls a gallon is almost toxic. My pure neem oil says 1tsp per gallon.
I usually mix it 2 tsp per gallon.


Did it have the black/dark areas before treating?


If not, it's now showing the damaged areas after treating.

Let it be, and get them some shade or a spot to get a little wind if possible.


Other things to think about:

I dont like that chucky bark top dressing either.
Clay pots also hold onto past fungus problems unless you bleached them if those are reused clay pots.

I'm not a fan of clay pots. Dry out soil faster, holds diseased, easily damaged.

Edited by Masher, 29 May 2019 - 06:17 PM.


#11 YourPalSal

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Posted 29 May 2019 - 10:13 PM

Neem is a pretty good fungicide, IF you follow the directions.  My next best suggestion would be to seek out a Master Gardener from your local state ag extension office.  Or, take some very good close up photos of the plants and head to your best local nursery/greenhouse and ask someone there.  Whatever you do, don't take the plant to the nursery.  They won't look to kindly on that.


Thanks!

#12 YourPalSal

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Posted 29 May 2019 - 10:14 PM

Your Neem concentration is too strong, to be sure.
.
Are you emulsifying the Neem, or just putting it in water?


No experience emulsifying neem - what does that entail? Im mixing it in water directly, but I must have misread the directions lol.

#13 YourPalSal

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Posted 29 May 2019 - 10:17 PM

Just a couple thoughts on what I'm seeing.

4 Tbls a gallon is almost toxic. My pure neem oil says 1tsp per gallon.
I usually mix it 2 tsp per gallon.


Did it have the black/dark areas before treating?


If not, it's now showing the damaged areas after treating.

Let it be, and get them some shade or a spot to get a little wind if possible.


Other things to think about:

I dont like that chucky bark top dressing either.
Clay pots also hold onto past fungus problems unless you bleached them if those are reused clay pots.

I'm not a fan of clay pots. Dry out soil faster, holds diseased, easily damaged.

Thanks for the info! I do regret choosing the clay pots and I agree that it was a bad choice in hindsight. On a positive note, they were brand new and were not reused. I plan to put them in 5 gallon or larger plastic buckets in fall - its about to get very hot here in Phoenix and Im thinking that repotting in those conditions could cause more harm than good. What do you think?

As for whether or not they were showing black spots prior to the strong neem oil application - I dont believe so. I am almost positive that they werent, but cant remember exactly.

Side note: for some reason all of my apostrophes disappear whenever I post from my phone. So annoying!

Edited by YourPalSal, 29 May 2019 - 10:18 PM.


#14 Masher

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Posted 30 May 2019 - 08:20 AM

I'd re pot asap.

Higher temps of summer in those pots will just continue to add more stress to an already stressed out plants.

Hope they recover for ya.

:cheers:

#15 solid7

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Posted 30 May 2019 - 12:36 PM

No experience emulsifying neem - what does that entail? Im mixing it in water directly, but I must have misread the directions lol.

 

The "normal" instructions are nearly worthless.  Neem is an oil.  Like most oils, it doesn't mix with water.  So you have to emulsify it, so that it has half a chance of getting out of the sprayer in some sort of homogenous mixed form.

.

For a 2 gallon sprayer - 2 Tbsp of Neem, 1 Tbsp liquid soap. (DO NOT use detergent - Dr Bronner's Peppermint is my go-to)

.

In a separate container, mix the soap and Neem, and mix thoroughly, before adding to the sprayer of water.  I like to run the water into the sprayer while I'm pouring in the emulsified mixture, so that it mixes easier.  Either way, you give the sprayer a good shake when it's all in there, and you're off.  As noted by others, only spray at night.


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#16 Orekoc

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Posted 30 May 2019 - 01:42 PM

Solid will correct me if I'm wrong (and I'm wrong, like, a lot), but most liquid dish washing soaps aren't really a soaps, they are a detergent.  We just call them soaps, as detergents are associated with washing clothes.  At least here in the USA.  Not sure what the rest of the world thinks.  I've never been able to get them all to answer my questions. :drooling:


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#17 solid7

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Posted 30 May 2019 - 04:42 PM

Just noticed that you used a raised bed mix in a container, so I'm seconding the recommend to re-pot.  Get a container mix in there, or make your own.

.

That's at least part (if not all) of the problem.


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#18 Masher

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Posted 30 May 2019 - 06:39 PM

 
The "normal" instructions are nearly worthless.  Neem is an oil.  Like most oils, it doesn't mix with water.  So you have to emulsify it, so that it has half a chance of getting out of the sprayer in some sort of homogenous mixed form.
.
For a 2 gallon sprayer - 2 Tbsp of Neem, 1 Tbsp liquid soap. (DO NOT use detergent - Dr Bronner's Peppermint is my go-to)
.
In a separate container, mix the soap and Neem, and mix thoroughly, before adding to the sprayer of water.  I like to run the water into the sprayer while I'm pouring in the emulsified mixture, so that it mixes easier.  Either way, you give the sprayer a good shake when it's all in there, and you're off.  As noted by others, only spray at night.


solid7 has the right advice. I agree. I use yucca extract as an emulsifier.

Didnt even think about that.

Good catch solid :cheers:

#19 solid7

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Posted 30 May 2019 - 07:31 PM

solid7 has the right advice. I agree. I use yucca extract as an emulsifier.

Didnt even think about that.

Good catch solid :cheers:

 

Interesting.  Not heard of yucca as an emulsifier.  Does it cause any problems with sprayer clogging?


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#20 Masher

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Posted 30 May 2019 - 07:54 PM

 
Interesting.  Not heard of yucca as an emulsifier.  Does it cause any problems with sprayer clogging?


This is a grow store liquid form.

Been using it as needed about 7 yrs now.

Never had an issue with typical 1qt, hand held sprayers or my 1 gal pump srayer.

I use warm water, yucca and neem.

Edit: spelling errors.

Edited by Masher, 30 May 2019 - 07:55 PM.






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