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Hornworm damage

Tybo

Tybo

I sprayed my plants with neem/soap last night before total darkness trying to stay ahead of the various bugs I find.  I even lifted leaves to spray the underneath side of the leaves and around the base of the main stem.  I can't believe I missed a 3" hornworm!  
I had errands to run this morning and when getting home around noon my wife said I needed to checkout one of the Shishito plants.  "Something has just about ruined it".  I went to see for myself and right away saw the monster.  Where do these things come from?  I should have seen it last night!  It was huge.  The hornworm isn't in the pic.  I was so pissed I pulled it off right away before getting my camera.  The foliage on this plant was basically full.  Now it is naked.
Think it will recover?  We have been enjoying the Shishito's.
 
Hornworm Damage.jpg
 
It'll recover, but you may want to get some shade on those naked babies.
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Often, plants respond to this kind of stress with extra vigor.  
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Hornworms are mobile.  They move from plant to plant.  You saw what they did to your pepper.  It did that to some other plant just yesterday.  And the day before.  And the day before.  And...  It was probably a weed that it ate last.  Peppers and tomatoes are super delicious for these guys.  By the way, when you are talking about caterpillars, it's best to do a "poop check" every day when they are in their peak season.  Look for anything from speck size poo, up to the miniature barrel looking poo that hornworms drop.  That's the nice thing about hornworms.  When they're eating, they don't go far.  If you find poo, just look immediately above it.
 
SoHot said:
Spray you plants at dusk with Bt - bacillus thuringiensis. I try and spray my plants every other week. 
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Can you be a little more specific about your technique?  Do I need to lift up leaves and coat all surfaces?  Or is a general top coat good enough?
 
Also, the hornworms are delayed out here in California.  Do I wait until they emerge, or should I spray now?
 
juanitos said:
yes it will recover,  just a haircut lol
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Haircut!  High and Tight!
 
mitchNC said:
Was the hornworm covered with little white sacs?
 
They're all over my tomatoes but once the wasp larvae form they're toast.
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No white sacs.  I have found them like this in the past though and know about the beneficial wasp.  How do you leave the worms on the plants?  They are pretty voracious with their appetite!!  Thanks
 
solid7 said:
It'll recover, but you may want to get some shade on those naked babies.
.
Often, plants respond to this kind of stress with extra vigor.  
.
Hornworms are mobile.  They move from plant to plant.  You saw what they did to your pepper.  It did that to some other plant just yesterday.  And the day before.  And the day before.  And...  It was probably a weed that it ate last.  Peppers and tomatoes are super delicious for these guys.  By the way, when you are talking about caterpillars, it's best to do a "poop check" every day when they are in their peak season.  Look for anything from speck size poo, up to the miniature barrel looking poo that hornworms drop.  That's the nice thing about hornworms.  When they're eating, they don't go far.  If you find poo, just look immediately above it.
Click to expand...
Thanks, I'll move it to a shady spot for now.  I did pick quite a few of the peppers that were on it.  
So you mean that the hornworm might not have been on the plant when I sprayed and then came marching in last night?
 
SoHot said:
Spray you plants at dusk with Bt - bacillus thuringiensis. I try and spray my plants every other week. 
Click to expand...
 
I looked for Bt at the local Ace hardware today and didn't see any. Maybe one of the big box stores might have it.  Thanks for the reply. 
 
Tybo said:
Thanks, I'll move it to a shady spot for now.  I did pick quite a few of the peppers that were on it.  
So you mean that the hornworm might not have been on the plant when I sprayed and then came marching in last night?
Click to expand...
 
Yes, definitely.  Some types of caterpillars are so territorial, that they'll even cannibalize every sibling, until they're the master of the domain.  Just like the Highlander.  There can be only one...
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It's possible that he crawled up at night.  I've had big ones show up out of nowhere before.
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The BT works, and is probably the preferred solution for caterpillars.  I use Neem because it handles everything in my garden. Both BT and Neem take time, and require ingestion.  BT doesn't work on everything.  Not even all caterpillars.  It's more expensive.  That's my reasoning.  I did do some research, and apparently, there is no issue with using both together.  But just be warned...  It doesn't work  any faster than Neem, and you're still gonna take a hit.  Best route is to spray, and to manually scout the plants, every day. (while they are at their peak)
 
I just do an overall coating of the leaves of Bt. I don't take the time to lift up the leaves. I will put the mister upside down and get under the leaves the best I can. Sometimes I spray just Bt. A lot of times I'll mix it with Serenade (fungicde) and/or foliar fert feedings. I spray it on all my plants. Peppers, cukes, squash, tomatoes, etc...I just start it early in the season and it's just part of my regimen. I've been gardening many years and always use Bt and I have never had a caterpillar issue.  . 
 
There is absolutely nothing wrong with Neem. But I live in Texas and I would have to go out in the middle of the night and spray it once the temps have cooled down this time of year. I can spray Bt at dusk and roll on. That's about the only reason I don't use neem in my mixes. 
 
SoHot said:
There is absolutely nothing wrong with Neem. But I live in Texas and I would have to go out in the middle of the night and spray it once the temps have cooled down this time of year. I can spray Bt at dusk and roll on. That's about the only reason I don't use neem in my mixes. 
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I spray Neem at the same basic time that the law requires you to turn your headlights on...  It's the light, not the temps that makes it problematic.
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I've got nothing bad to say about BT.  It's just that caterpillars are the least of my worries here.  Whitefly and broad mite are the scourge...
 
SoHot said:
Spray you plants at dusk with Bt - bacillus thuringiensis. I try and spray my plants every other week. 
Click to expand...
 
 I recommend this method. My local store also does not stock it (they used to.) I think you can order it from amazon. They are probably cheapest. You want a small 8 0z bottle. You won't need more than this unless you have a super large garden. You may also need a spray applicator. Walmart sometimes sells relatively inexpensive mixers. Best thing with pesticides is label is law. Follow the directions exactly for mixing.
 
What you want is Southern AG Thuricide
 
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004CZ2YBW/ref=twister_B07BKYZDK1?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1
 
The one tiny problem with BT control is that it has a very short shelf life. You will know when it is expired because it smells HORRIBLE at that point. I usually take it to the local registered chemical dump to dispose of the extra. 
 
Hope your plants do well!
 
Tybo said:
I sprayed my plants with neem/soap last night before total darkness trying to stay ahead of the various bugs I find.  I even lifted leaves to spray the underneath side of the leaves and around the base of the main stem.  I can't believe I missed a 3" hornworm!  
I had errands to run this morning and when getting home around noon my wife said I needed to checkout one of the Shishito plants.  "Something has just about ruined it".  I went to see for myself and right away saw the monster.  Where do these things come from?  I should have seen it last night!  It was huge.  The hornworm isn't in the pic.  I was so pissed I pulled it off right away before getting my camera.  The foliage on this plant was basically full.  Now it is naked.
Think it will recover?  We have been enjoying the Shishito's.
 
attachicon.gif
Hornworm Damage.jpg
Click to expand...
 
I wanted to show an update on this Shishito.  21 days after the hornworm did it's damage here it is now.  The top has grown back out nicely.
 
Thanks everyone for the help.
Shishito recovery.jpg
 
solid7 said:
 
Yes, definitely.  Some types of caterpillars are so territorial, that they'll even cannibalize every sibling, until they're the master of the domain.  Just like the Highlander.  There can be only one...
.
It's possible that he crawled up at night.  I've had big ones show up out of nowhere before.
.
The BT works, and is probably the preferred solution for caterpillars.  I use Neem because it handles everything in my garden. Both BT and Neem take time, and require ingestion.  BT doesn't work on everything.  Not even all caterpillars.  It's more expensive.  That's my reasoning.  I did do some research, and apparently, there is no issue with using both together.  But just be warned...  It doesn't work  any faster than Neem, and you're still gonna take a hit.  Best route is to spray, and to manually scout the plants, every day. (while they are at their peak)
Click to expand...
 
Annnnnnnnd, in my experience, there's never just one.
 
[EDIT]:  Yes, we are talking hornworms.  A couple of years ago, I had a single tomato plant on my deck, off which I picked a total of 17 hornworms in various stages of development, from a half inch long to full grown granddaddy size.  And YOU are correct...poo is usually the first sign of a hornworm.
 
nmlarson said:
 
Annnnnnnnd, in my experience, there's never just one.
Click to expand...
 
If we're talking hornworms, I'll certainly agree.  If we're talking about cutworms, by the time you find that one that's the size of your pinky finger, he's already devoured his brothers and sisters...
 
last year, i encountered only a single hornworm. i looked for more but couldn't find them. i probably would have eventually noticed given their apetite, right? maybe i just got lucky.
it was on a tomato plant in a container isolated from the rest of the garden by 10-20 feet.
i pulled it off and kept it indoors as a pet until it turned into a moth. i was curious about its lifecycle.
it was not happy to be ripped off the tomato plant. it started audibly chattering/clicking, whipping its head around, and spewing green chlorophyll juice from its mouth when i grabbed it. the thing was pissed off.
 
http://thehotpepper.com/topic/69662-what-pest-is-this/#entry1581843
 
Hornworms often times cross the yard for nightshade plants.  Don't expect to find the whole litter.  On that same note, don't rule it out, either...
 
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