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Simple break down brine ?


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#1 Gargoyle91

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 12:58 PM

I've tried to read the fermenting 101 thread but came away more confused.

What is a simple ratio salt to water ?

Is one Table spoon of salt per cup water good enough ? Do you add a bit of vinegar after the ferment is finished ? Is it OK to add spices in the beginning or should you wait till the end ?

Also why use a starter it will ferment without one correct ? If I use juice from sauerkraut how much juice for a pint of brine ?
Also it says boil the finished ferment but isn't that going to kill the bacteria you fermented for ?

I know these questions have been ask over and over thanks ahead of time.

Edited by Gargoyle91, 08 September 2019 - 01:44 PM.


#2 ShowMeDaSauce

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Posted 09 September 2019 - 10:56 AM

1 TBS of Mortons canning salt per quart of water is almost a 2% brine (19 grams would be a 2%)

1 TBS + 1 TSP per quart of water is a 2.5% brine (24 grams would be a 2.5%)

 

1 TBS of Mortons canning salt is roughly 18 grams.

1 TSP is 6 grams

1/4 TSP is 1.5 grams per the label on the box

 

You can use a little vinegar to swing the pH lower. Just dont use much.

 

Homemade kraut juice will give the lacto bacteria production a massive head start. 1 TBS is plenty. There are millions of them in a single TBS of good kraut juice.

 

If you dont pasteurize a ferment it remains alive. It will also remain active until the pH gets too low. Lacto B can handle well past shelf stable pH and will continue to ferment. Only stopping when all the sugar is gone or the pH is low enough. You can slow that down a great deal in the refrigerator but if you want shelf stable and no surprises....pasteurize it.


Edited by ShowMeDaSauce, 09 September 2019 - 11:14 AM.


#3 sirex

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Posted 09 September 2019 - 05:47 PM

I use a healing TBS to a quart. Works out to around what showdasauce says.

No need to add vinegar if pH is low enough some like the taste though. Add it when it is finished.

It's ok if the questions have been asked over and over. We've all asked em. That's what we are here for :)

You can add spices before or after. Some don't like fermented garlic etc. Just remember that of your adding product after the ferment you can alter the pH.

Some people kickstart it with a starter. I don't because I don't keep brine lying around.

Can't stress enough that if you don't pasteurize you can create a pressure bomb. Put it in the fridge, forget about it and 2 months later it explodes on ya. So yeah. Boil it :)

Never sacrifice flavor for heat.


#4 salsalady

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Posted 09 September 2019 - 07:30 PM

There are some basic definitions here...
http://thehotpepper....d-other-things/

Might help sort out the different options.
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#5 ShowMeDaSauce

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Posted 10 September 2019 - 09:46 AM

The link should be updated with current listed weights.

 

1/4 TSP of Morton's Coarse Kosher salt weighs 1.2 grams. So 4.8 grams per TSP and 14.4 grams per TBS according to the label.



#6 Gargoyle91

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Posted 10 September 2019 - 11:01 AM

Thanks for the info I finally got back around to growing some peppers this year and want to try and ferment pint size batches with Black Cobra and Brazilian Starfish hoping for a good out come !


Edited by Gargoyle91, 10 September 2019 - 12:05 PM.


#7 KidShelleen

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Posted 14 September 2019 - 01:03 PM

I have found this chart for the amount of salt for a brine % to be invaluable.

d5fa6c793660080d83ee35304e2d9e47.jpg



#8 Gargoyle91

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Posted 14 September 2019 - 02:20 PM

I have found this chart for the amount of salt for a brine % to be invaluable.
d5fa6c793660080d83ee35304e2d9e47.jpg

That chart might as well be written in French now I feel stupid lol

When it says 6-8% by weight is that the weight of your mash ? If your mash is for example 200 g would that mean ad 12 g salt for a 6% brine ? Is that per quart of water ? 12g salt per quart water = 6% brine ? Ok I'm just confusing myself why would the weight of mash determine the grams of salt per quart . I'm just going to go with a TBS per cup of water lol

Edited by Gargoyle91, 14 September 2019 - 03:00 PM.


#9 KidShelleen

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Posted 14 September 2019 - 03:00 PM

That chart might as well be written in French now I feel stupid lol

 

Hah. My head was spinning when I first saw it, go down the columns. So, I usually try to make a quart of 2.5% brine for 1/2 gallon jar of peppers. So, for a quart of water, I try to get at least 24 grams of salt, by weight. For a good fermentation, it is better for a little more salt than less but I try to hit something between 2.5% and 3%. You are best off using a digital kitchen scale. 25 grams of salt doesn't look like much and it doesn't take long to pour, so go slowly. IHTH
 



#10 Gargoyle91

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Posted 14 September 2019 - 03:04 PM

24 grams of salt by weight of what ?

That's what I'm having trouble with.😁

#11 KidShelleen

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Posted 14 September 2019 - 03:05 PM

That chart might as well be written in French now I feel stupid lol

When it says 6-8% by weight is that the weight of your mash ? If your mash is for example 200 g would that mean ad 12 g salt for a 6% brine ? Is that per quart of water ? 12g salt per quart water = 6% brine ? Ok I'm just confusing myself why would the weight of mash determine the grams of salt per quart . I'm just going to go with a TBS per cup of water lol

 

This is for a brine, not a mash. If you have a mash, you will have to weigh it and then add 2.5% - 3% (or whatever % you are looking for) of that weight in salt. A calculator and a digital scale are your best friends for this.

 

Edit: For 200 g of mash @ 6% salinity, you will need ~12 g of salt. (200 x .06 = 120). That's pretty salty and will slow down your fermentation. For sour dill pickles, that is just a little more that what you would need. 5% maximum.
 


Edited by KidShelleen, 14 September 2019 - 06:57 PM.


#12 Gargoyle91

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Posted 14 September 2019 - 03:09 PM

 
This is for a brine, not a mash. If you have a mash, you will have to weigh it and then add 2.5% - 3% of that weight in salt. A calculator and a digital scale are your best friends for this.
 


So 200g of mash add 6g of salt per cup water ?

I'm really not this stupid lol

Edited by Gargoyle91, 14 September 2019 - 03:16 PM.


#13 KidShelleen

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Posted 14 September 2019 - 03:30 PM

I don't understand what you are trying to do. Do you just have a mash? If so, just add whatever percentage of salinity you want of your mash weight with salt. There should be no reason to add a brine (water and salt) to your mash. Get your weights figured out for your mash. If you want to add some additional brine at the same percentage, just follow the chart, but it shouldn't be needed.

 

I just posted the chart to help folks who wanted to make their own brine to cover their pieces of peppers. Sorry if I confused you. Disregard the chart if you are doing a mash.



#14 Gargoyle91

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Posted 14 September 2019 - 03:34 PM

I don't understand what you are trying to do. Do you just have a mash? If so, just add whatever percentage of salinity you want of your mash weight with salt. There should be no reason to add a brine (water and salt) to your mash. Get your weights figured out for your mash. If you want to add some additional brine at the same percentage, just follow the chart, but it shouldn't be needed.
 
I just posted the chart to help folks who wanted to make their own brine to cover their pieces of peppers. Sorry if I confused you. Disregard the chart if you are doing a mash.

I'm going to pick peppers throw them in a blender chop them up place them in a jar and cover them in a brine and place a glass weight on top not sure what I'm missing or not understanding lol I guess I need a 3% brine for that ?

Or if I just add the salt to the finely chopped mash and suck the air out that works also? I always thought you had to cove the pepper mash in brine up to a inch to the lid .

Edited by Gargoyle91, 14 September 2019 - 03:43 PM.


#15 KidShelleen

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Posted 14 September 2019 - 06:52 PM

Okay, one last time. If you put your peppers in a blender, you are going to get what the folks call "a mash". You don't need any additional brine for that. Just add a percentage of "mash" weight of salt. Easy math. As I said before, 200 gs of mash and a 6% salinity is 12 gs of salt. (I previously posted 120 gs. That was waaaay wrong. 6% is .06)

 

If this is your 1st attempt with fermentation, I strongly recommend that you just cut up your peppers into pieces, most preferably to me, lengthwise. Put them into a jar with an airlock. You can get airlocks, grommets and tops from a local brew supply store. Cover them with a brine solution to your percentage preference using the chart that I posted. Make sure that your peppers are covered and stay below the brine line. Use a plastic sandwich bag filled with brine to keep the peppers down. You will probably get some yeast buildup on the top. Just skim it off. If you get mold, pitch it. You should have some nice fermented peppers in four weeks. Then put them into your blender, add some white vinegar to lower the PH, if necessary. Most folks say that 4.6 or lower is shelf stable, but I prefer 3.6 or lower. If you don't know the PH, put your sauce in the refrigerator or can it with a boiling water bath. IHTH.

 

Read the Fermenting 101.


Edited by KidShelleen, 14 September 2019 - 06:59 PM.


#16 Gargoyle91

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Posted 14 September 2019 - 07:03 PM

Now I get it I was thinking mash was just the ground up peppers and still needed brine , Thank you for helping me understand the difference lol


So with a true mash you just suck out the O2 and no need for it to he under brine or glass weight ?

Edited by Gargoyle91, 14 September 2019 - 10:58 PM.


#17 KidShelleen

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Posted 14 September 2019 - 10:52 PM

Basically, yes.



#18 ShowMeDaSauce

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Posted 15 September 2019 - 10:30 AM

When using a ground mash its a good idea to go with a much higher percentage. That type of mash will mold more easily unless you can remove the oxygen. Chunks of peppers you can simply keep under a bring line. Mold aint gunna grow worth a damn on salt water. When you process the fermented pieces you dont have to use all your brine either. My cayenne ferment is on its 4th day in my E-Jen fermenter and it already has a sour smell. I used around 2% salt by pepper weight and made a brine to cover them. Caldwell and similar starter cultures make a huge difference in how fast they begin to sour. They are just stupid expensive. A bottle of probiotic juice is way cheaper and will do the same thing.

 

They do make a fermenter with a pump to remove the air inside the Mason. How well it actually works i dont know. Kits are around $25-$30 and you need some large mouth jars too.

 

https://www.amazon.c...y/dp/B07JMNMZN2

 

https://www.amazon.c...d/dp/B01DJVVORE

51i7qHv6jeL.jpg

 



#19 salsalady

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Posted 15 September 2019 - 05:12 PM

Now I get it I was thinking mash was just the ground up peppers and still needed brine , Thank you for helping me understand the difference lol


So with a true mash you just suck out the O2 and no need for it to he under brine or glass weight ?


Not exactly....it should still have salt added...

How it works is...salt keeps the bad bugs from starting until the stuff starts fermenting, at which point the release of CO forces the oxygen out of the environment...which is where the airlock comes into play. Oxygen out, CO forming, burping or bubbler airlock means no oxygen back into the jar. Just sucking the oxygen out of the jar not enough to ensure a safe environment where Nasties of all sorts wont grow. Botulism can grow in a high pH environment without oxygen.

Such as...green Beans in a canning jar in a boiling water bath are in an oxygen free environment, but there is no salt or acidity (vinegar) and they will spoil and be deadly if eaten. Green beans and other veggies/fruits like peppers that are not naturally low in pH must be pressure canned, pickled, fermented, dried, frozen, etc.

Sauerkraut and kimchi both have salt to keep the nasties at bay until the GoodBugs can get started growing. And both of those are made with cabbage which starts to ferment very easily. Peppers do not start fermenting on their own like cabbage.

If you do not use salt, it is Strongly Suggested to use a starter culture. Even then, it is usually suggested to use a bit of salt, maybe in the 2% range, just to keep things happy until it can start fermenting.
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#20 ShowMeDaSauce

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Posted 16 September 2019 - 10:07 AM

Very true, botulism bacteria do NOT need oxygen either but they can not tolerate a low pH. Kimchi ferments very fast in a warmer situation. Anything with cabbage will actually with the correct amount of salt to give it enough time. It just needs to do its job before any nasties can do theirs. After the pH drops and O2 is gone...you are golden. Very little will grow in that environment other than good bacteria.

 

Lacto bacteria easily handles pH below 4 and you can swing the pH in your favor a number of ways including lactic acid available at brew shops. The stuff is super strong 85-88% and only cost a few bucks for a small bottle. It dont take much to drop pH a point or two. Starting with a water pH around 5-6 might be helpful in lower salt ferments....i may have to try that. Bottled water should be around 7 to start. Dasani and Aquafina start out at almost 6.

 

Even with a starter culture i would not go below a 2% brine or by pepper weight. Ive done it with kraut but i would not try it with peppers. Cabbage is cheap and easy to ferment. Its one of the best ways to practice lacto fermenting and a great way to keep a live culture on hand. I always have kimchi and kraut in the fridge. Mostly it only gets better with age. Ive stashed quarts of kimchi in the back of the fridge and forgotten about them for a year. Man is that good kimchi!!!

 

All the ground mash recipes ive seen use a higher % of salt but this might work

 

Make up a ground mash with 2% salt by weight including the water if it was needed.

Carefully put the ground mash in a Mason jar and keep it as clean as possible above the "mash line".

Sprinkle a little salt on top of the ground mash.

Even a light misting of some vinegar or a 5% lactic acid solution on top wont hurt a thing.

Seal up the jar with an air lock and inspect it after the 3rd day....it should be pretty obvious as the mash will grow as CO2 is produced and trapped in the mash

 

Once it looks like its fermenting toss it in the fridge. Check on it occasionally.


Edited by ShowMeDaSauce, 16 September 2019 - 10:52 AM.





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