commercial-kichen Commercial kitchen project

HellfireFarm

Business Member
Time to kick off this project!

I called the electric company today to have them come out and tell me what it's going to take to get the new service. County tells me that because of my agricultural zoning, this counts as a farm outbuilding so isn't subject to the permit requirements something like a house or commercial structure would be (YAY!). Especially since it's an existing structure being converted. That means I'll be able to use the existing well and septic, too. All the major hurdles are out of the way.

Next I need to get ahold of Ag department and county health to see if there's anything I need to do for them before I start. Obviously I will need a water test and probably some sort of filtration or purification.
 
Off and running!!!!


Where i live, the COUNTY health dept has no input into a commercial facility that will be selling wholesale.

If I were selling directly to customers at the FM, i would have to be county licensed. Yearly fees, like $100 for a FM license.
Not worth it....


Sorry, a bit of a tangent there to say...you may not need county or city lic3nsing if you are not direct selling.
 
Awesome!

Do you have a design for the kitchen yet?

Yes I do. Old-fashioned hand-drawing. Software engineer for a living and I can't figure out CAD. (Although I could probably program it). Thanks for the idea, I'll scan it & post!

@salsalady yep, county health does not care about candy or spice production for retail sale. State Ag dept. manages everything. Just spoke to them and they're sending me the regulations and all that, but other than knowing what I need to pass inspection, there is nothing else from them until it's ready to go.

Waiting to hear back from building department about pulling an electrical permit for new electric service. I'm having a new service drop run so this will be totally independent from the house, including billing. Less than 100' away from the pole so installation is no charge 🤯

I'm getting worried, this is all going way too smoothly! 😨
 
Initial state of the space
20230203_174315.jpg

Needs a little clean-up first!
 
Here's the design.

kitchen.png


Question mark on the refrigerator because that is a full-size one and I really don't need that. The most I'll ever need to keep refrigerated is a couple cartons of egg whites and cream. Going to be insulated and kept as steady temperature as possible, and chocolate is shelf-stable. (in fact, refrigerating it is bad). So I'm thinking of getting an under-counter model instead.
 
I'd suggest a center island, a stainless steel restaurant quality work table, a slim one to fit, but so you have a center workspace. Make sure you have electrical there. You definitely want a huge deep sink for washing large objects and appliance parts. And make sure you have a good work triangle which is key for efficiency when cooking.
1675465686565.png
 
He won't be using the fridge but maybe once per batch....(maybe?) The triangle may not be that important, but set it up for any possible future work.

You will need a floor sink for all the sinks. Each sink will need it's drain to terminate above the floor sink. They are not hard piped. They have to have a gap between the end of the drain pipe and the floor sink to prevent back up of sewer water into the drain system.

Reasoning behind this is...if the drains are hard piped and the system backs up overnight, sewer/waste water can back up into the sinks, then drain out and noone would know. People come in in the morning and start work with contaminated sinks. The air gap over the drain prevents waste water from getting into the sinks. If water backs up, it will run onto the floor, not up into the sinks.

I arranged my sinks in a U-shape, ran 3 separate drain pipes to the floor sink. One for the triple sink, one for the 2 prep sinks, one for the hand sink. The are all on one end of the kitchen.

This may influence where you place the sinks.

Move the mop sink to the right of the 3-comp into the dead corner.
Move the hand sink to where the mop sink is, tight to the corner.
Shift the 3-comp to the left, tight to the hand sink
Get a prep sink with an integrated drainboard that works as a prep table. I work with a lot of fresh veg and peppers, so I LOVE having a sink with a drainboard. Wash stuff up, toss it into a colander, leave it on the drainboard to ...(duh.. ;) ) drain.
The prep sink drain can surface mount above the mop sink around the corner to the floor sink which would be somewhere under the triple sink.

I am assuming there would be a center work table.

Vent hood over the stove. I have just a basic Broan home kitchen vent hood with lights. Nothing fancy.

floor sink img.jpg
 
He won't be using the fridge but maybe once per batch....(maybe?) The triangle may not be that important, but set it up for any possible future work.
It doesn't necessarily need to be the fridge when it comes to a commercial kitchen, it can be the 3 most used things. There should still be a work triangle for small kitchens where one person is doing most of the work. It can be the sink, the stove, and the cutting board, for example. Imagine having to walk around an island every 30 seconds. Or just back and forth end to end.
 
Restaurant kitchens are different because of assembly lines and staff.

This one's from a food truck Another 1/2 person operation.
1675471715545.png

 
Not too sure about a center island, my space is pretty limited. I've spent a good bit of time in that space. But that's something I can always add at any point - once I see how things fit I'll see if that will work. Thanks for the reminder about electrical though - I'll have to put some overhead outlets in the middle.

As far as work triangle, with what I do I really just need a work hyphen. The layout is based on how I normally produce the product already. (Have to say I wish my home kitchen had a good one though. It WOULD be perfect if the island didn't exist)

@salsalady is right about usage - pour out 3/8 cup of egg whites and that's it.

They are not hard piped. They have to have a gap between the end of the drain pipe and the floor sink to prevent back up of sewer water into the drain system.

Interesting, I didn't know that. Thanks for the heads-up on that.

Move the mop sink to the right of the 3-comp into the dead corner.
Move the hand sink to where the mop sink is, tight to the corner.
Shift the 3-comp to the left, tight to the hand sink

I wasn't sure about putting the mop sink that close to the main prep area, but I would also have to sacrifice the work table beside the prep sink - that's only 3 feet from the wall to the table.

Although, thinking about it, I could use a rolling table instead, and then I get more space against the "top" wall. I'll play with the design a bit.
 
Sooooo I was thinking this was for hot sauce but I think it's for your candy? (And dried peppers some?) Okay so yeah you would know best what you need here. I was picturing blending, chopping, cooking, and grabbing from fridge. Whenever I see kitchen on this site it's usually for sauce.
 
Not too sure about a center island, my space is pretty limited. I've spent a good bit of time in that space. But that's something I can always add at any point - once I see how things fit I'll see if that will work. Thanks for the reminder about electrical though - I'll have to put some overhead outlets in the middle.

As far as work triangle, with what I do I really just need a work hyphen. The layout is based on how I normally produce the product already. (Have to say I wish my home kitchen had a good one though. It WOULD be perfect if the island didn't exist)

@salsalady is right about usage - pour out 3/8 cup of egg whites and that's it.



Interesting, I didn't know that. Thanks for the heads-up on that.



I wasn't sure about putting the mop sink that close to the main prep area, but I would also have to sacrifice the work table beside the prep sink - that's only 3 feet from the wall to the table.

Although, thinking about it, I could use a rolling table instead, and then I get more space against the "top" wall. I'll play with the design a bit.
You woulnt be sacrificing the work table next to the prep sink if you got a prep sink with an attached 3 foot drainboard. For example...
images.jpeg
 
Hot water heater.....

I have a traditional 30 amp shorty...fits under the prep table/sink. It makes enough hot water for my processing if i manage the usage. I can run out of hot water if not careful. Be aware of what your hot water requirements are.

Electric On Demand h2o heaters take (HUGE!!!!) amps. For a food service operation, it would be ...like...120 amps....of a 200 amp service. A propane/NG is a great option.

What is your heat? For a small space i would suggest a King PickAWatt recessed wall heater. Takes up one stud bay=@16 oc. Go with 240v.

Edit- low risk foods sales
Candies fall under the low risk foods allowed under the Cottage Industries ( also called the Picke Bill) rules for sales at FM. You should be able to sell at FM without county licensing. Deoending on your county...
 
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Don't forget about the hot water heater. I know there are "point-of-use" water heaters but not sure how good those work.

Hot water heater.....

I have a traditional 30 amp shorty...fits under the prep table/sink. It makes enough hot water for my processing if i manage the usage. I can run out of hot water if not careful. Be aware of what your hot water requirements are.

Electric On Demand h2o heaters take (HUGE!!!!) amps. For a food service operation, it would be ...like...120 amps....of a 200 amp service. A propane/NG is a great option.

"30 amp shorty" - I'm not sure what that is. A small tank heater I'm guessing?

Water must be 110F+ if I'm reading the regs right. I'm planning an electric on-demand. Yes, it's 120A 240V, requires 3x 40A breakers and 8/2 - but as I understand, the total amperage of the panel can (and often does) exceed the service amperage (I know my house panel does) - it's what you use at any given time, right? (I recall reading a method for calculating amperage for a home service). I can't picture a time where I would be using anything close to the remaining 80A, let alone any time that I would be using anything other than the lights at the same time as the water.

But as always, you got me thinking. The only things I need hot water for is hand and implement washing - so enough to fill two of the three basins in the 3 compartment, and for the rinsing. I'll have to do some measurements - wouldn't mind NOT going that route!

What is your heat? For a small space i would suggest a King PickAWatt recessed wall heater. Takes up one stud bay=@16 oc. Go with 240v.

We have a through-wall AC in the gym and they make AC/Heater combos, but I was thinking to use a mini-split here. Cooling is critical for chocolate! And I'm not sure about the heat/cool distribution of a wall unit.
Although I like that heater design. Maybe coupled with a small window unit that would work. More to investigate.

Edit- low risk foods sales
Candies fall under the low risk foods allowed under the Cottage Industries ( also called the Picke Bill) rules for sales at FM. You should be able to sell at FM without county licensing. Deoending on your county...

Yeah, county said "We don't regulate candies or spices" so nothing needed from them. Ag just said "be sure to conform to these requirements", nothing in advance needed from them, either.

Sooooo I was thinking this was for hot sauce but I think it's for your candy? (And dried peppers some?) Okay so yeah you would know best what you need here. I was picturing blending, chopping, cooking, and grabbing from fridge. Whenever I see kitchen on this site it's usually for sauce.

Yep. I have no intention of doing sauces. For two reasons: one is all the regulatory requirements for it. But also because that's what everyone does and there are just so many on the market it would be difficult to make a mark. Powders, spice blends, and candies - the candies being the real stand-out product.

Yes, I'm going through a lot of trouble for low-risk foods, but with indoor pets I can't use my home kitchen. I WAS renting a commercial space but that place literally disappeared on me. They still haven't cashed the check I sent them for the first month of use, never billed me for anything else, and now I can't get ahold of anyone at all. The next nearest one I can find is ~90 miles away (no, there's nothing to be found in Raleigh at all)
 
Hot water tank...called lowboy tanks, about half the height of a regular tank.
 
SO,
Taking all the advice into account so far, and going with a smaller 3-compartment sink, you guys have saved me almost $1000 and given me more space in the process!

Updated design:

plan.png

The space to the left of the hand sink is perfect for a trash can.

It's a LITTLE tight in front of the mop sink - 30" instead of 36" but that's not too bad.

I don't know why I didn't think of a propane inline heater, given the stove is propane! That saves me messing with the heavy circuit and 8/2 and the crazy amps. I'm now at 145 amps for all circuits running all-out. And a much smaller panel as well. Still looking over the heating and cooling options but at the moment still leaning very heavily to the mini-split.

The new location for the sinks has me thinking to run the drainage for the hand sink and 3-compartment all in one line and drain into the mop sink. Do the same for the prep sink and I only need one drain! (Unless I NEED another floor drain?)

Regarding the stove - 21CFR only says "All plant equipment and utensils used in manufacturing, processing, packing, or holding food must be so designed and of such material and workmanship as to be adequately cleanable, and must be adequately maintained to protect against allergen cross-contact and contamination.", with nothing specific saying that it has to be commercial-grade, so I was thinking of getting a good quality residential one instead. Anyone see a problem with that? It saves me a little space and a lot of money, and if I get one with a "power burner" I'll have more than I'll ever need.
 
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