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seeds-germination When is ripe enough

C

cmwr

I have two pimenta diomar plants in my garden. I’m harvesting seeds for next years crop. This pepper when ripe is a vibrant red color. This one pod looks good and is a little over ripe as it has lost its firmness however I’ll still eat it. But the reddish color is not quite as dark as they tend to get. I am asking for informational purposes only. Would a pepper that is almost fully colored but just lacking a little still have viable seeds? This one is just light red and these will get dark red……ie at what point do fruits “cross over” for seed saving?
 

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I think it can be different for different varieties. I hear about jalapeno seeds taken from green ripe jalapenos that germinate, though I haven't had success with testing that out with jalapenos until there was at least a little color showing on the pods. I've had several varieties germinate successfully when the pods were only just starting to flush with color. I suspect in most cases you'd be safe with seed maturity when the whole pod had colored, but I couldn't say this for sure. I suspect when you cut that one open you'll be able to see if the seeds look plump and mature or sort of thin and immature. My best guess is they're just fine and may have been mature even earlier than when you harvested the that pod.
 
I usually get multiple flushes of peppers come. My first peppers are usually small but the ones that come in after are full size, I will choose one or two of the best for seed and just leave them on the plant for as long as possible. I think CD is right but it's more a question of percentages. I never really thought about this before so I looked up some papers and found this:
The paper looks at seed weight and resulting gemination/seedling vigour from seed extracted from peppers at different stages of ripeness.
Seeds extracted at the fully ripe stage in Legon 18 obtained the highest 100-seed weight but was not significantly different from seeds extracted at the half ripe stage. In BAG 14/001, seeds extracted at the fully ripe stage differed significantly from the half ripe, rotten and initial stages.
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In Legon 18, seeds extracted at the fully ripe stage had the highest germination percentage but was not significantly different from seeds extracted at the half ripe and rotten stages. In BAG 14/001, seeds extracted at the rotten stage showed the highest germination percentage in both petri dish and seed box.
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In Legon 18, seeds extracted at the fully ripe stage had the highest vigour but was not significantly different from seeds extracted at the half ripe and rotten stages. In BAG 14/001, seeds extracted at the rotten stage obtained the highest vigour in both petri dish and seed box.
Click to expand...
 
That’s some interesting studies! This is something that I’ve been wondering for years but never bothered to ask. I just cut that fruit open and it was fairly empty inside. There was exactly 8 seeds and if I remember correctly there is usually quite a bit more than that plus there was hardly any placenta. There was just two thin lines of it on each side. I took a bite and the flavor and heat was still there but I’ll take my chances on a better pod to get seeds from. I got plenty to choose from as this variety has to be one of the most prolific peppers I’ve ever grown. It’s insane how many fruits these plants out on.
 
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Where as, seeds extracted at the fully ripe and rotten stages gave higher vigour and germination percentage than those harvested at the initial and half ripe stage in both cultivars.

This is what saving seeds has taught me over time,
 
Here’s an interesting question. If you pick a fruit when it’s green and fully ripen in a paper bag with a banana, will the seeds still be viable or do they need to actually ripen on the vine to be viable?
 
Bananas don't do anything. Neither do apples for chilis. What counts is the ripening stage. They can also ripen off-vine, but they will probably have less energy reserves.
 
Annuchin said:
Bananas don't do anything. Neither do apples for chilis. What counts is the ripening stage. They can also ripen off-vine, but they will probably have less energy reserves.
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I’ve used bananas to ripen green tomatoes as well as peppers in the past. Explain when you say “what counts is the ripening stage”
 
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Annuchin said:
Bananas don't do anything.
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Ethylene should be as important in pepper ripening as it is for tomatoes.

edit
Didn't see cwmr already replied. Also I'll add I've never actually tried it with peppers but in theory it should work the same as with tomatoes, unless you have seen otherwise?
 
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i think the "ripening stage" comment further up is referring to whether the peppers have started to change/ripen at all versus being completely green.

in my mind it's like the plant needs to have "sent the message" to the pepper to begin ripening before it's removed from the plant for any/much/full ripening to take place off of the plant. so even a slight colour change will indicate the process has started and therefore will continue (to some extent) after removing the pepper.

if the message was not sent to start the ripening process, it (likely) won't do much if you pick it.
 
Annuchin said:
the scientific literature says that the ripening of capsicums is not affected by ethylene.
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This was very interesting to read up on, thank you. Non-Climacteric fruit was a new term to me and I was surprised to see tomatoes are climacteric but peppers non climacteric. Apparently ethylene does have an effect on non climacteric fruit but due to the way it uses ethylene in ripening it just causes it to spoil quicker. So as you said, putting peppers and bananas in a bag is only good for getting them to rot.

Some interesting stuff I found:
agriculture.institute

Climacteric vs. Non-Climacteric Fruits: What Sets Them Apart? - Agriculture Notes by Agriculture.Institute

Climacteric fruits, such as bananas, tomatoes, and apples, experience a significant increase in respiration and ethylene production during ripening, known as the climacteric rise. This rise is associated with enhanced ripening processes, including color change, softening, and flavor development...
agriculture.institute agriculture.institute

Ethylene biosynthesis and signal transduction during ripening and softening in non-climacteric fruits: an overview - PMC

In recent years, the ethylene-mediated ripening and softening of non-climacteric fruits have been widely mentioned. In this paper, recent research into the ethylene-mediated ripening and softening of non-climacteric fruits is summarized, including ...
pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
 
As long as you feed your fruit-bearing cutting or single fruit with water and, if possible, fertilizer, provide light, and are lucky that they don't start to rot, then they will happily ripen over many weeks, almost as on the plant.
 
growyourown said:
i think the "ripening stage" comment further up is referring to whether the peppers have started to change/ripen at all versus being completely green.

in my mind it's like the plant needs to have "sent the message" to the pepper to begin ripening before it's removed from the plant for any/much/full ripening to take place off of the plant. so even a slight colour change will indicate the process has started and therefore will continue (to some extent) after removing the pepper.

if the message was not sent to start the ripening process, it (likely) won't do much if you pick it.
Click to expand...
Fully understood thank you for the explanation
 
My opinion is that the slightly higher germination and vigor from the later stages is not due to physiological maturity, per se, but probably has more to do with starch accumulation in the seed.

Just lobbing this in based on the thread and the study which @danish posted
 
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