vendor Brain Strain Yellow and "Other" Pod Problems!!

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Ok....first let me start by saying to the mods and the admin...if i have posted this in the wrong place i am sorry and please help me out by placing this in the right place :)

I recently have been getting some flack and such from a few customers "claiming" im only sending ONE or TWO pods of the correct "Type" they have ordered in their boxes, along with some "other" type of pepper to fill the rest of the box! I guess i have to take my time and loose sleep over this to help you guys out with this.......EVERY, and i mean EEEEVVVEEERRRYYYYY plant on my property i inspect for "PICTURE PERFECT" pods before i tag and label it as a "correct match" to the type it is supposed to be! With that being said, i have harvested several of the same customers previous orders of the SAME EXACT plants and have had ZERO complaints. Why or how is this so you may ask?? Heres WHY and a little bit of "Pepper Growing 101" on a HUGE scale!!! Something i had to learn myself so i dont expect your "AVERAGE" hobby grower to even consider it possible! Right now...this very minute.....i have plants with PICTURE PERFECT (Lets say BS Yellow cus thats the pods in question from most right now) pods on them...and on the VERY SAME NODE on that plant i have another pepper (codename "odd one") that looks just like a yellow BS with some of the wrinkles missing and "tail" section not as "defined" as the picture perfect one growing on the SAME PLANT and ON THE SAME NODE section...SIDE BY SIDE on the SAME PLANT! This in NO way shape or form means that this "odd one" is not a BS Yellow!! I mean for pete sake they are growing on the SAME PLANT and their stems are almost touching at the same NODE! But one is PERFECTLY representing a BEAUTIFUL Brain Strain Yellow! So....heres the science lesson ladies and gents... Theres NO WAY that on a "genetic" level these two peppers are NOT the same!! They came off the same plant!! THAT is a proven scientific FACT! Now....i will agree if someone said the SEEDS inside MAY/MAY NOT grow a "true" genetic match, but that has ZERO impact on the type of pepper that the plant itself grows! PERIOD! There are different "factors" that go into "pod" appearance....first there is how long the "flower ring" holds on to the pepper and causes the shape to change...i.e....if you have 2 peppers growing side by side on the same plant, and one holds the "flower ring" a week longer than the other while the pod is forming..the one that held the "flower ring" longer will have a more defined and "true" pod shape and appearance! That i learned from growing THOUSANDS of plants to full maturity this year and watching them all form and shape on the plants DAILY! Second...there are insects that will in fact alter/change the course and growth of your plants/fruit as well....Broad Mites! These little buggers attack eat and destroy the "new" growth on pepper plants....i.e....the new as well well as the established flowers on the plants. When u have an insect outbreak and you are in the process of geting it under control they are causing the flowers to drop their "flower rings" early and some of the pods just dont have the PICTURE perfect pod shape as a result! So...................... in closing i would like to say to ALL of my customers...I have NOT and will NEVER sell you a product that is NOT 100% coming from the same plants that grow "PICTURE PERFECT PEPPERS!! The conditions here in the nursery alter/change the pod appearance as well as weather, heat, nutrients, watering (or lack of)...theres MULTIPLE things that can make a plant have some PERFECT looking pods and some that just dont...period! BUT NEVER THE LESS THAT DOES NOT MEAN THEY ARE NOT WHAT YOU ARE BUYING OR THINK YOU ARE BUYING!! IF A PEPPER PLANT GROWS ONE TYPE THIS WEEK, NEXT MONTH IT GROWS THE SAME THING!! IT NEVER CHANGES!!

Like i said before...i dont expect your "average joe" to be able to see that on his plants, or even understand all that i just said. Heck, even myself when i was just a hobby grower i had no idea this was even possible really....until i grew on this HUGE scale!! In fact..i have even eaten pods like i mentioned before (2 off the same plant that look not the same) and they both had the SAME heat, texture, seed levels present, flavor, and even the same afterburn/taste! Again...from the SAME plant how could they NOT??? Right?? Right!! Physically, they "appear" different, but in fact are the SAME!! I hope this has made some sense to ALL of you...i do realize that i cant please everyone EVERYTIME, but you guys need to understand that i WILL NEVER sell you something im not 100% sure came from plants that show PERFECT pods!! My whole 60 year family reputation is on the line here!! Take it from a hobby grower turned COMMERCIAL grower! This is something i am learning as i go...and again...i dont expect EVERYONE to really grasp it and register what im saying...

One last thing..and this will CLEAR this all up for you guys hopefully........RIGHT NOW...i mean as of right now...i have some of these VERY same plant producing Brain Strain Yellow plants that i harvested to fill these recent orders in question.... almost FILLED with picture perfect pods...new ones....still young...and the pods "appear" 100% genetic matches to a PERFECT BS Yellow! On the same plants where you guys "questionable" pods came from!! NOW........you tell me how thats possible if THE PLANTS are NOT Brain Strain Yellow!!!

Those of you that know me, know that im just a family guy, trying to earn an honest living growing these things..and some of you have also had "other" issues with pods or what have you..and i have ALWAYS made good to my customers when i know theres something "I" could have done or helped make sure the product was exactly what the customer ordered.....and i ALWAYS have made good on those....thats how we pride ourselves on good business ethics! I want you all to know I, Dale Jr, PERSONALLY have hand harvested EVERY pod shipped out of Baker's Peppers LLC up to date! EVERY ONE! and i dont pick pods from plants that have not PROVEN to me they are 100% geneticly a MATCH! if i did that, i would have issues like THIS on my hands!! And by the looks of it, that couldnt be helped, by no fault of ANYONE!! Myself, the plants, or the customers! I mean, who has EVER grown these on a scale like this?? How could anyone have known these factors that go into all of this...i sure didnt! But rest assured, if YOU order product from Baker's Peppers LLC, our products have come from plants that produce pods that ARE picture PERFECT...................Under the right PERFECT conditions in nature!! Trust me, Let your plants go without proper fertilizer or water or pest control while flowering/fruiting and SEE FOR YOURSELF the effects of it! Now in saying that i am partially admiting that thru the season myself or my father have not been able to 100% keep up with all of those (watering, ferts, pest/bacteria control). We are a 2 man show and have been BUSTING ASS trying to keep up with all this DEMAND! So we have experienced some ups and downs and along that road we have found out that this EFFECTS pod appearance!!! Theres NO other explanation for this issue! I as the grower of these things here on my property am 100% sure of this, as i have WITNESSED it ALL with my OWN eyes!! I would like to send out an apology to those who cant or wont agree with our findings. All i can say is im sorry you wont return to do business with us. I cant control how "sometimes" these pods dont "appear" perfect....but i give you my WORD as a man, father, and hard worker.......I WILL NEVER SELL YOU PEPPERS THAT IM NOT 100% POSITIVE CAME FROM PLANTS THAT HAVE GROWN "PERFECT" PODS UNDER "PERFECT" CONDITIONS....Sometimes they "APPEAR" perfect and sometimes they dont.....That will ALWAYS be a factor when these peppers are grown on a HUGE scale like we are doing.........PERIOD!! So if you buy from me, or from someone else who has grown on a scale bigger than a "backyard" grow, you will find that not all pods on the same plant, no matter how PURE the seeds, will all be 100% PERFECT! IT JUST ISNT REALITY!!

Now, some of you may say well they are open pollinated so that is why the pods dont "appear" 100% the same perfect! Tisk tisk! :) Any simple bit of research into how pollination works and how it effects things will tell you that when a plant flowers and gets pollinated the plant produces pods on a genetic level how its been programmed since IT was a seed....pollination has ZERO effect on this....ONLY the seeds INSIDE this pepper will have a change in genetics!! The plant will ALWAYS be a Butch T (or whatever type u have) but the open pollinated seeds inside its peppers is ANYONES guess!! The plant, for its WHOLE life will ALWAYS produce its type of peppers! It will never be changed by pollination of its flowers, but the seeds inside could be crossed with ANYTHING of its "breeding" type around!

I hope this has helped some of you know a bit more about all of this, as it has been a learning curve for me as well....And i hope you guys understand that all i ever wanted to do was get the masses the peppers they desire...period! and thats all we are GOING to keep doing! :D

P.S.- One last thing i wanted to add...here at the nursery, we have whats known as "The Pile". And almost DAILY i find plants out in the nursery that have NOT ONE of these "PERFECT 100% MATCHES" to what its supposed to be found on them! ALL and i mean EVERY one of these plants finds its way to "The Pile"!!! Regardless of how long i have grown it for and how much care and cost i have put into that plant! PERIOD! It goes to "The Pile" to die...PERIOD! We dont grow or sell ANYTHING we are not 100% sure of!!

Dale Baker Jr
Baker's Peppers LLC
www.BakersPeppers.com


Lastly...I would like to add that i purchased ALL my Brain Strain Yellow seeds from Cappy at www.BrainStrain7.com and ALL my Brain Strain Red seeds from Judy at www.PepperLover.com ... I hope that clears up some confusion and i formally appologize to Judy about the mix up on where my seeds came from! :D
 
I have to say maybe you should give us 'Hobby' growers a little more credit about what some of us know.
Just because you are growing on a huge scale doesn't mean you know more then someone growing say 20 plants.
All your rant says to me is that you think you know more then us mere mortals and we should just accept your word.
Maybe instead of alienating your customer base with condescending rants you could have simply posted a picture of the different pods on the same node to illustrate your point??
Just pointing out the fact this doesn't do your 60 year reputation much good either
 
Dale, it would be great if you can take a picture of a picture-perfect yellow brainstrain with a non-standard yellow brainstrain that the customer described on the same plant. A picture is worth a 1000 words ... Literaly ...

That should ease the issues that is going on ...
 
already considered that, pics coming as soon as i can get to the nursery to take them....and it wasnt a "rant" i have been getting SLAMMED with hate mail all day....and it NEEDED some CLARITY! but i agree, pics are worth a THOUSAND "rants" :) Also, i dont "look down" on anyone..hobby growers or whatever....i just needed to voice that only someone who has grown these peppers on a scale like we are would ever find this kind of stuff out..thats all i mean :)
 
well, i have not had any bad dealings wiht you Dale, but i think what the main compliants were is that
A. the pods did not look "BS" ish(you have explained why this could have happened)
B. the flavor/heat level of the pods were not "Bs" or even yellow 7 ish, this, your few paragraphs did not explain.
 
well, i have not had any bad dealings wiht you Dale, but i think what the main compliants were is that
A. the pods did not look "BS" ish(you have explained why this could have happened)
B. the flavor/heat level of the pods were not "Bs" or even yellow 7 ish, this, your few paragraphs did not explain.

No one has complained to me about "Part B" as of yet....only that i sent them pods that did not "appear" to be Brain Strain Yellow...can i read a complaint somewhere i dont know about?? Point me in that direction boss :D Thanks :)
 
they look nothing like the first box i ordered a couple weeks ago. As far as flavor goes they taste nothing like a 7 pot. They are dirty tasting no fruit flavor. I want my 30$ back. You have lost me as a customer.
 
I am sorry but if someone is really reputable about growing seeds, plants or fresh peppers for sale they should have their own pictures representing their own product. I mean everyone has a camera on their phone by now or has a friend that has a good camera phone. Anyway I bring this up because he has taken 3 of my pepper photos without my permission. So yes that is wrong and if I was a consumer I would question his integrity. When I have grown new varieties I would at least take the time to ask permission to borrow photos. Just sayin...........
 
Bakers Peppers,

I've been working full time in a very customer service oriented produce/nursery market since I was 15. I'm now 25, the manager, and once the boss retires, I'll be taking over. In a nutshell.. I know my stuff at a young age. When it comes to small business, these days, without excellent customer service... You don't have shit. Hell, between places like Walmart, Winco, and Costco it's amazing that our tiny business even stays in business. It's definitely not our prices I can tell ya that! Yeah some stuff is cheaper than some but what keeps people coming back is our quality, the enviorment, and most of all, our customer service. When someone has a problem with a product, which does, will, and will always happen, we try to fix it.. You don't need a lesson in business I'm sure but my point is.. 95% of the time people are willing to try something else or get something else for a replacement for the bad product they bought. The other 5% of the time? People do NOT want a replacement, don't wanna do business with us ever again, want their money back, and thats what happens.. We do lose a few customers from time to time, but, our return customer number is so high that it doesn't even matter.. You win some.. You lose some. That's the way of retail.

It just abso-f'**n-lutely kills me to see big commercial growers shoot themselves in the foot when it comes to backyard gardener growers. YES we might know less or more than you do when it comes to growing, YES we know or might not know peppers grow in different shapes and sizes. You have a great business!! Superhots for everyone year round? AWESOME! But you have to realize, some customers are going to be upset if their pods aren't "picture perfect." Many, MANY chileheads don't realize that pods grow differently than the "model picture" you can find on google images.. If the heat and flavor is different, well, you need to test that yourself which it sounds like you've already done. So! if thats the case.. and you are honest with your tasting and findings. You need to back your business without making a fuss about it. If someone has a problem with something... Fix it. A replacement, money back, whatever it may be, FIX IT. If you lose a customer? It's gonna be alright. It happens in retail, always will.

I understand your frustration, but you have to go about it in another way man.. If I got that upset when a customer made a fuss about our produce I would have lost my job a long time ago. You have to act/sell/ and return accordingly. And remember "backyard gardeners" are 99% of the people that buy from you.

Just my 2cents.

Brandon
 
The customer is always right!
If I bought brainstrains, I'd want brainy looking pods otherwise I'd just buy 7 pods but those in the pic do not even look at all like 7 pods and I've grown tonnes of them over the years. Now if they taste different and have different heat from previous orders according to customers then I'd listen to their complaints and find out why.
Remember too that Cappy does not isolate plants for purity, so there is always a chance of hybrids. I'd certainly like to see a pic of the plant with "proper" pods as well as ones like the original pic
 

AlabamaJack

Extreme Member
the only way to insure the "correct" pod type and color of a variety is buy one that is what you want and develop your own based on selective breeding...

P has definitely hit on the major point...seeds being grown are from plants not isolated...they are probably in the F3-F5 generation of hybrid development...this is JMHO...

I will post another thread in growing hot peppers later today showing 22 plants that are grown from the same pod...yup...there are almost 22 different pod shapes....

Dale....I understand completely what you are saying since I, myself have experienced the pod shape/color variation...
 
Dale, it would be great if you can take a picture of a picture-perfect yellow brainstrain with a non-standard yellow brainstrain that the customer described on the same plant. A picture is worth a 1000 words ... Literaly ...

That should ease the issues that is going on ...


i LOVE U... you are reading my mind.....
he doesnot have..........
thats JUST ittttttttttttttttt

The customer is always right!
If I bought brainstrains, I'd want brainy looking pods otherwise I'd just buy 7 pods but those in the pic do not even look at all like 7 pods and I've grown tonnes of them over the years. Now if they taste different and have different heat from previous orders according to customers then I'd listen to their complaints and find out why.
Remember too that Cappy does not isolate plants for purity, so there is always a chance of hybrids. I'd certainly like to see a pic of the plant with "proper" pods as well as ones like the original pic

1++++++++++++++++++++++
thank you Sir

they look nothing like the first box i ordered a couple weeks ago. As far as flavor goes they taste nothing like a 7 pot. They are dirty tasting no fruit flavor. I want my 30$ back. You have lost me as a customer.
go to paypal..... becasue he will not send the money back he is greedy....
 
There will always be problems in transactions between consumer and vendor, that is inevitable. The true businessman handles the complaint cordially and promptly, not fights, kick, blames and rants.

A quick quiet resolution would have avoided this entire melodramatic situation, there are lessons to be learned here.

For your sake, and that of your online business here on this forum, perhaps people will forgive and move on. Using a condescending tone with us lowly hobbyists is, more than likely, not a wise strategy, perhaps that that is ANOTHER, lesson to be learned.

Good luck......
 
Lastly...I would like to add that i purchased ALL my Brain Strain Yellow seeds from Cappy at www.BrainStrain7.com and ALL my Brain Strain Red seeds from Judy at www.PepperLover.com ... I hope that clears up some confusion and i formally appologize to Judy about the mix up on where my seeds came from!


You didn’t get mixed.. you asked me 7 times on the private message about the yellow Brain Strain and I told you I didn’t have and I did send you Red Brain strain as your pics show… but you thought u will make your customer happy when you balming an innocent person like me and throw her under fire…..

Also we "hobby" growers are WAY ahead of you commercial greedy people..
Because we take pride of our product and we are passionate about it.. we don’t see pepper as dollar sign like you do……

Honestly I think you need to back off growing pepper and stick with your flowers and herbs here the GUYS are experts and you can’t fool them, lie to them, or make them believe you by saying sorry I was mixed up they say ooooh ok …….

How many years have you every grown superhots beside jalapeno and habanero that you been selling in your nursery
 
Ok....Ladies and gentlemen of the JURY! I got the pictures! In fact.....i even took it a bit further and got pictures of other pods on plants (Butch T grown from 10 seeds i purchased from Neil at THSC.com, These BS Yellows i purchased from Cappy)!! I just want to point out one thing here in the begining of this post....I will be the FIRST person to admit i was on here last year looking for seeds to trade/sase. I STILL HAVE THEM IN BAGS IN THE FRIGE!! Minus about 500 or so seeds i took out and grew which is now what we call the "MIX" section out in the nursery. These plants in this section were grown from the free and traded seeds from last year. Thats why i labeled that section "MIX", cus to be honest u just dont know what your gonna get....Now, on to the other plants im growing and selling pods off of as well. These yellow BS and the Red BS and such were ALL PURCHASED SEED STOCK from reputable locations, NOT the free stuff from last year..i have receipts and GROW LOGS to prove it! Check them out guys! I do also have about 2500 Trinidad Scorpion from another "VERY well known" source who wishes to be left out of this. Point being, i grew the seeds i PURCHASED to sell to you guys..here in the forums, as well as thru my website. The main reason for this was i KNEW you guys here have a VAST knowledge of peppers and im a self admittingly NEWBIE to this game. I knew i could NOT risk "possible crosses" and try to sell them off to you guys as LEGIT pods! With that being said...i bought the seeds......grew them....and i am still growing EVERY plant that has shown me "Picture Perfect" pods...at some point in its life! The rest, those who have NEVER shown those "PERFECT" type pods of that type...go to the PILE!! PERIOD! Heck, i do 65% of my business through this forum and i value EVERY SINGLE customer we have! When i feel like a customer is trying to pull the wool over my eyes, i stand behind my product, and im not implying that is what has happend here, im just stating that if i feel that way at any point in time, i will ALWAYS stand behind what im growing! With that being said...ladies and gentlemen of the jury... Pictures!!

Example #1...These pods are RIGHT next to each other...same node!!

IMAG1662.jpg


Example #2...This is PRETTY cut and dry here guys......

IMAG1679.jpg


Example #3...ANOTHER cut and dry case.....

IMAG1689.jpg


Example #4...Heres another...just look at the type variations....

IMAG1688.jpg


Example #5...Im tellin you guys.....it JUST happens like this....some perfect...some like not even close....

IMAG1693.jpg


These are the Butch T i purchased from Neil at THSC.com....LOOK at the variation!! Its not the seeds guys.........NATURE!

IMAG1694.jpg


These are the Trinidad Scorpion from a "VERY well known" source.....AGAIN....take a look....

IMAG1696.jpg


So........i think i have made my point here....when u have THOUSANDS of plants.....and your filling one SMALL box of pods for a customer....theres a "chance" that u will get a bunch of pods that are NOT picture perfect....end of discussion IMO!

Now on to the way this situation was handled...by myself and the others involved...I am issuing a FULL refund to the 2 customers that had an issue this week. YOu guys know who you are :) After seeing the proof above im sure you guys will understand my "Standing behind my product" business ethics! But, with that being said it no way shape or form gives me the right to act how i did either! I am in fact running a business and need to conduct myself accordingly. In the future i hope this may have helped save any more problems between myself and all of you guys (My Customers!) Im just a grower, and when i see plants grow from seed...every day..im hands on...watching them grow and take shape...i notice all the little things i missed when i was just doing this for fun...i had a real job and wasnt able to be "with" the plants 24-7....Now i watch for EVERY plant that doesnt grow true..it gets pulled and DUMPED! I as a grower NEED my customers to trust that i do EVERYTHING i can to make sure you get what you pay for! That has been drilled into me by my father and his father before him!

I hope that everyone here in the forum knows what kind of guy i am really...theres some customers out there that can vouch for me....I just want to provide u guys with the produce you are looking for....If im NOT doing that then i can just fold up the place now and go BACK to the Kitchen! LOL...Im no crook...im not out to rip ANYONE off....im just trying to save my family business....And i hope that ALL parties that i may have upset or offended here will accept that apology from us here at Baker's Peppers LLC.

Special point i want to make.... Judy at PepperLover.com ... I NEVER meant to make the mistake on the seed types...after all, i DID buy hundreds of Brain Strain Red seeds from you. It was a simple mistake and for that i am sorry... Judy is a VERY reputable seed vendor IMO and if you dont think so..you should see the pods from the BS reds...oh wait....those are the ones you guys have been buying too! :) Thanks Judy! Sorry for EVERYTHING!!

Thanks guys....we hope to be doing business with ALL u guys soon...sorry about everything.....

Dale Baker Jr
Baker's Peppers LLC
www.BakersPeppers.com
 

The Hot Pepper

Founder
Admin
You have not "made your point," you have really made an ass of yourself and probably lost your pepper business.

The customer is always right!

This x 1000!

This should not have been a rant to begin with, or trying to prove your customers wrong.

If I order a case of granny smith apples, and they don't look or taste like granny smith, guess who is right? I am. Your remedy would be to send me a case that looks and tastes like granny smith, not insults and public rants with scientific explanations. This is not how you conduct business if you want to survive!

I have no idea if your peppers are true or not. But if they don't look or taste like the true peppers, guess what, they are not! Because...

The customer is always right!
 
You have not "made your point," you have really made an ass of yourself and probably lost your pepper business.

The customer is always right!

This x 1000!

This should not have been a rant to begin with, or trying to prove your customers wrong.

If I order a case of granny smith apples, and they don't look or taste like granny smith, guess who is right? I am. Your remedy would be to send me a case that looks and tastes like granny smith, not insults and public rants with scientific explanations. This is not how you conduct business if you want to survive!

I have no idea if your peppers are true or not. But if they don't look or taste like the true peppers, guess what, they are not! Because...

The customer is always right!

THANK YOUUUU

NO just that.................
there is NOOOOOO wayyy in hell and we all know that the poor guy who paid tons of money got any form of 7 pods......

now that you are showing you have what seems like a yellow 7 pod.... why not all, most, some of what people get looks like what you just posted...............
the pic is agains you not supporting your arrgument.....

AGAIN Dale ..... this is not to offend you even you have done me wrong by including my name in your bad business and you apologized but i want you to know.......

Here the guys eat... live..... breath.... sleep.. dream... sh!ttt peppers.... dont think you can fool them......
they love peppers more than anything .. as result they are so passionate about it that .... they get very offended if someone like you try to mess with their pepper culture..... it is away of life not a way of making money.....

To protect our reputation in the hotpepperforum as the best pepper community online…and improve our credibility.. And to save our members from being ripped off again.. I suggest if anyone will sell any fresh pod you MUST post a pic for the same exact box you will ship….

Dale why do you think one box of brain strain from my plants sold for $175 last year…..
For one it is isolated… for two I took close pictures showing almost all pods…. For three if the member said I don’t don’t want it I will simply send the money back and thank him/her for doing business with me…
Have you taken any courses of management… marketing… communication in school… like in hell somewhere?
 
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