breeding Cross-breeding

M

Magic dr.Shoon

I'm going to be giving cross-breeding a go this year.
 
I've read several of the how-to guides, and I'm quite confident in what I need to do.
 
The question I have is does it change the outcome depending on which way around the cross-breeding is implemented?
 
So I'm going to try to cross a Carolina Reaper with a Tongues of Fire. Would it make any difference if I took the pollen from the reaper and pollinated the ToF, compared to if I took the pollen from the ToF and pollinated the reaper?
 
I'm guessing it has nothing to do with the fruit barer, and more to do with the DNA of the different plants, but that is a complete guess!
 
Thanks in advance.
 
I believe it does make a difference.So you might try a cross both ways.This should satisfy what youre trying to create.
 
Without getting sciencey, you'll likely get different results. Many people have crossed peppers both ways, and get variations in color, shape and heat. The Katie and Lucy come to mind (Naga Viper x 7 Pot Jonah, and vice versa). I crossed a TSMB with a Fatalli both ways. One came out yellow, the other red and hotter.
 
But, you will likely see variations if you did the same parental cross several times. I think there's just lots of dominant/recessive gene combos waiting to show themselves.
 
Do it both ways, several times, save your best results and then attempt to stabilize.
 
Thanks for the replies.

I realy don't mind (and quite like) if you "get all sciencey".

Realistically I'm going to do as you say, do half and half of the same plants. But I wanted to ascertain whether, for example, cultivating the fruit on the reaper, the seeds of those pods would be more reaper-like with an influence of ToF.

But, like I said before, I'd be surprised if it actually works like that.

Take humans for example;to the layman, it's potluck if the kids pop out more like the fathers side or mothers. In reality I know it's all to do with the dominant and recessive genes lottery.

Ill just have a play and see what happens!

Tongues of Fire are the perfect chilli for me as they are thin skinned, perfect size for one to be used raw sprinkled on my dinner/sandwich, prolific and are quite pokey in the heat department, baring in mind these are eaten raw as my other half doesn't like spice.

But, I do make the occasional sauce,which would benefit from all the same traits, but with the heat turned up.

I know there is bound to be a variety out there that will fit the bill, but I like the idea of making my own variety!
 
I personally like choose my mother plant based on the following rules..
 
1)  What parent pod holds the most seed ( More F1's to grow out )
 
2)  What parent plant has the best germination rate ( Although the seeds will be a mix the actual seed will have the hardware of the parent for germination purposes ( Give or take fertility issues from variety crosses ) , bell pepper seeds could probably grow in your hand with a tissue an a drop of water were a wild variety might be very temperamental to get to germinate.
 
3)  What cross will make it easy for me to tell early on if the cross worked.. eg. A black foliage and green foliage parent.. The green parent having black offspring will be easy to notice  and will be dominant over green foliage from a black plant..
 
4) What parent pod is easy to come to ripeness so when harvesting I know the seeds will be at there prime. ( Evergreen pods are so hard to determine if there ripe your seeds may be undercooked )
 
 
 
Taking these things into consideration I choose which way I cross them.
 
Interesting.

So which way for what.

For instance, if you wanted the darker foliage colour, would you use the parent with the desired foliage as the male or female?
 
It shouldnt matter as there will be green and dark folliage genes in the offsrping.. However.. If you where to use the green parent as the mother and the black folliage as the donar pollen... Once you grow out those seeds if the seedlings are black or dark out of he seed atleast you will know your cross worked..
 
Even some darker varieties can start off green sometimes dependant on light etc. so if you reverse it you might not know you have a cross until its much larger or pods form.
 
Ah, ok. I misunderstood. I thought you were saying that the things you mentioned above helped you to decide which would be the mum and which would be the dad. I see now that these are the things to help you decide which breeds to cross.

I'm trying to work out (if it matters) which plant will be the mum and which will be the dad (purely out of interest as I'm going to be doing it both ways now anyway)
 
Magic dr.Shoon said:
Ah, ok. I misunderstood. I thought you were saying that the things you mentioned above helped you to decide which would be the mum and which would be the dad. I see now that these are the things to help you decide which breeds to cross.

I'm trying to work out (if it matters) which plant will be the mum and which will be the dad (purely out of interest as I'm going to be doing it both ways now anyway)
Click to expand...
 
No no no.. not which breeds to cross... I just like to be able to identify that the cross has been sucsessful as soon as possible, as peppers can self pollinate I don't want to grow 3 plants thinking there all F1 plants just to find out there all just normal non cross plants.
 
Coloured foliage (if its part of your cross) can be an early identifier .. that's all.
 
Ok, I think I see now. Of the two plants you have chosen to cross, you would select the mother plant based upon the criteria you have set out above.

What I can't see anywhere is which way...

I know you've said it shouldn't matter, but I have a choice. When I have a decision to make I like to have justification for my selection, however vague it is!

I'll let you know how I get on.
 
Magic dr.Shoon said:
Ok, I think I see now. Of the two plants you have chosen to cross, you would select the mother plant based upon the criteria you have set out above.

What I can't see anywhere is which way...

I know you've said it shouldn't matter, but I have a choice. When I have a decision to make I like to have justification for my selection, however vague it is!

I'll let you know how I get on.
Click to expand...
 
Well I use that list to select 'which way' based on what two peppers I'm crossing.. However some people choose the mother plant based on the plant they want as dominant .... does this make a difference ?? it shouldn't but some people swear it does.
 
eg.. I have a  Tic Tac sized pod that makes 1-2 seeds and Cherry sized pod with 20-30 seeds.. I'll make the Cherry sized plant the mother so I get lots of seeds that are F1 
 
       I have a pimenta (black foliage) and a Bhut (green foliage) I'll make the Bhut the mother so if the seedlings are dark I know the cross has taken early on.
 
       I have a Bell Pepper (easy germination)  and a Wild variety (hard germination).. I'll make the Bell the mother so the F1 seeds are easy to germinate. (Added bonus: I'll get about 200 seeds from the big Bell Pepper too)
 
HOWEVER .. .If I have two equally similar peppers I usually look at both plants and see what plants have flowers ready to be pollinated and what flowers have a good supply of pollen,  and use that to choose. Sometimes one plant has no ready flowers but a couple of good pollen producers and the other plant has more buds ready to be pollinated. I like to mix at least  2-3 flowers each time.  Make sure you separate the pods seed and don't assume all three are crossed and grow them out labelled separately. 
 
eg. Trinidad Scorpion x Bhut Jolokia   ... Label the three harvested pods seed as  TS x BJ - 1     TS x BJ - 2      TS x BJ - 3  
 
       I always put the mother plant first, I also usually put colours in if their not red .. TS (Y) x BJ (B)  1      Yellow Scorpion x Brown Bhut ...  
 
Remember if you grow three or four plants from the same seed F1, the resulting plants pods should be close to identical .. From here I usually keep 2 and cull weaker plants  I'll then harvest the seed from two or three of the best looking pods from each plant. I usually separate the different plants seed and define them as Pot 1 and Pot 2 but keep the seed from the same pods together ( the good pods seed ).
 
Remember its the seed from these new cross pods that will give you all your varying pheno's... This is where growing 6-10-20-50-100 plants too see as many possibilities is best, as many as you can. Cull off the ones you don't like and collect seed from the ones you do and continue to refine.  
 
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