Distorted/wrinkled leaves on Carolina reaper

[nicksbonsai]

Hi all, I've grown bhut jolokia in containers for a few years now. This year I'm growing reg moruga, yellow moruga and Carolina reaper for the first time (just added chocolate bhutlah). Half of my plants are in containers, the other half in raised beds. My soil is a mix of perlite, compost and sometimes odds and ends recovered from other containers. I fertilize every other week with Miracle gro, on the off weeks I use fish emulsion and spray with foliar nutrients I bought at the hydroponics supply store. It's a very mild solution but is supposed to help flowering. My Carolina reapers have gnarled, funky looking leaves and I'm worried I might lose them unless I take action. The rest of the peppers are doing well, although one or two morugus have a similar issue. I germinated the seeds during winter and about a month before we got spring here in Central Florida all my peppers got hit with white fly. I treated with azamax and neem oil, the 2nd which none of the peppers liked at all. 
 
Could someone help determine whether the issue may relate to something going on with the roots/soil, pest-related or nutrients? Thanks in advance. 
 

 

 

 

[meinchoh]

Looking at the yellowing around the leaves, I'm guessing that the fertilizing system you have in place may a bit over the top. Miracle Gro is pretty hot if you're not careful with it.

 

[Genetikx]

Wow, I'm sorry to see those pics. I think the issue is that you want to take even more action. Your best action is probably to do nothing...at least as far as nutes go. I'd flush the soil as much as possible, this is a time where over watering might be your friend. After two days of lots of water, give it time to soak up, I'd clip at least half of those leaves and likely all but a few, to see what new growth looks like. Post pics again so we can see progress. Good luck man

 

[queequeg152]

wow wtf lol.
 
ive never seen anything like that. the entire plant?
 
did this happen all at once? all over the entire plant? how long have the leaves been distorted like this?
 
the new growth is doing this?
 
calcium perhaps. drastically bad soil ph maby. maby calcium and herbacide injury.
IDK. 

 

[AJ Drew]

If I had looked at the photo and not read your post, I would have thought calcium deficiency with a hint of sunburn.  Then I started reading your post and thought, ye that makes sense because I do not think Miracle Grow provides calcium.  Then I read about the fish emulsions and the foliage feeding.  Looked under your avatar and saw you live in Florida.

Guess Work - Are your plants in direct sun light and are you spraying them during the day?  If so, stop it.  Wait till right as the sun is going down and drench with a fine mist of water... no spray nutrients, no Miracle Grow, not fish emulsions.  Give them some shade if you can.  Getting plants wet on a sunny day will burn them.  The water focuses the sunlight.  Now they do not look like typical sunburn at all.  But that is where I suspect the chemicals left behind from foliage feeding is coming in.  If that stuff builds up, it can dehydrate leaves in the strangest patterns.

I know this will piss off a bunch of folk, but Mother Nature really does know what she is doing.  You go throwing a bunch of chemicals at a plant, even if you get it right you are going to notice a difference in taste.  No clue what your resources are, but aged manure in your soil mix is great as is compost tea afterwards.

We want the very best for our babies, but sometimes being a helicopter farmer is just bad for their health.

H
 

 

[Elvis Has Left The Forum]

Please provide a little more information... In your first photo it appears that the lower leaves are normal looking... Is this true??? If so, have you changed anything since this plant began growing??? How long ago did you transplant it??? When did you begin applying each of the nutrients that you describe??? Can you post an overall photo of the plants???
 
It is just my opinion, but if these plants started growing normally and this abnormal leaf growth is only on newer leaves, then something probably changed in its life and these plants don't like the changes... (Call me Captain Obvious....LOL) Let's try to narrow it down to when it began and what all has changed... Also, nutrient changes could have occurred by either application or potting soil changes...
 
It appears in your photos that this plant is covered with blooms... IMO, if it was really, really stressed, it would be dropping blooms or the blooms would not be forming at all... Are the blooms dropping??? If the blooms are not dropping, it will probably be just fine if we can figure out what NOT to do again...
 
I am growing about 30 plants and about 10 different varieties... I have had a similar issue with two of my three Aji Mangos... I believe I have narrowed my problem to an application of nutrients... All of my plants were planted in solo cups and still small... They were all in the same location, with the same lighting and temperature... They were all watered using bottom watering and the nutrients were mixed by the gallon to insure uniform strength for all plants... In my case, I believe that I added a larger dose of nutrients to my two Aji Mangos that have wrinkled new growth...  If we can figure out a solution to your plant's issue, then it may help me verify the issue with mine...
 
BTW, I'm glad to see another Central Florida resident here on THP!!!

 

[AJ Drew]

FL Born, do yours have the almost white areas?

 

[nicksbonsai]

Wow, I'm sorry to see those pics. I think the issue is that you want to take even more action. Your best action is probably to do nothing...at least as far as nutes go. I'd flush the soil as much as possible, this is a time where over watering might be your friend. After two days of lots of water, give it time to soak up, I'd clip at least half of those leaves and likely all but a few, to see what new growth looks like. Post pics again so we can see progress. Good luck man

 
Thanks for replying. I haven't fertilized now for a week or so. I was thinking of removing some leaves to see what new growth would look like. I'll take/post pics this weekend. 
 
 

 
ive never seen anything like that. the entire plant?
 
did this happen all at once? all over the entire plant? how long have the leaves been distorted like this?
 
the new growth is doing this?
 
calcium perhaps. drastically bad soil ph maby. maby calcium and herbacide injury.
IDK. 

 
Yes, the entire plant. And this seems to be specific with Carolina reapers, it's not happening - at least as dramatically - to my ghost peppers or any of the morugas. 
I applied neem oil which the plants responded quite negatively to, maybe a week or two before transplanting outside. This would've been early March or late Feb. 
It's happening to new growth, old growth mainly dropped off, which is why the leaves are currently smaller. 
I thought it may be calcium or soil ph, but I have three beds with various peppers, reapers in the same bed as morugas have it but the morugas don't. 
 
 

If I had looked at the photo and not read your post, I would have thought calcium deficiency with a hint of sunburn.  Then I started reading your post and thought, ye that makes sense because I do not think Miracle Grow provides calcium.  Then I read about the fish emulsions and the foliage feeding.  Looked under your avatar and saw you live in Florida.

Guess Work - Are your plants in direct sun light and are you spraying them during the day?  If so, stop it.  Wait till right as the sun is going down and drench with a fine mist of water... no spray nutrients, no Miracle Grow, not fish emulsions.  Give them some shade if you can.  Getting plants wet on a sunny day will burn them.  The water focuses the sunlight.  Now they do not look like typical sunburn at all.  But that is where I suspect the chemicals left behind from foliage feeding is coming in.  If that stuff builds up, it can dehydrate leaves in the strangest patterns.

I know this will piss off a bunch of folk, but Mother Nature really does know what she is doing.  You go throwing a bunch of chemicals at a plant, even if you get it right you are going to notice a difference in taste.  No clue what your resources are, but aged manure in your soil mix is great as is compost tea afterwards.

We want the very best for our babies, but sometimes being a helicopter farmer is just bad for their health.

H
 

 
Plants are in direct sunlight. I water at the end of the day, around 6-7p, so they never are wet when the beastly sun hits. I've read (I also grow bonsai) that the 'water magnifying sunlight' is a myth, but that's not something I plan on testing or learning about the hard way. 
It's possible foliar feeding may have had a negative effect, but the nutrient level is so low and all the other peppers and my tomatoes have had no issues. Regardless, I'm holding off from further spraying. 
I agree about soil mix. Getting the soil right should be #1 for everyone. Starting off with compost/manure will get you going way further up front and help prevent having to make up for it later on, which does/can cause other issues. 
 
 

Please provide a little more information... In your first photo it appears that the lower leaves are normal looking... Is this true??? If so, have you changed anything since this plant began growing??? How long ago did you transplant it??? When did you begin applying each of the nutrients that you describe??? Can you post an overall photo of the plants???
 
It is just my opinion, but if these plants started growing normally and this abnormal leaf growth is only on newer leaves, then something probably changed in its life and these plants don't like the changes... (Call me Captain Obvious....LOL) Let's try to narrow it down to when it began and what all has changed... Also, nutrient changes could have occurred by either application or potting soil changes...
 
It appears in your photos that this plant is covered with blooms... IMO, if it was really, really stressed, it would be dropping blooms or the blooms would not be forming at all... Are the blooms dropping??? If the blooms are not dropping, it will probably be just fine if we can figure out what NOT to do again...
 
I am growing about 30 plants and about 10 different varieties... I have had a similar issue with two of my three Aji Mangos... I believe I have narrowed my problem to an application of nutrients... All of my plants were planted in solo cups and still small... They were all in the same location, with the same lighting and temperature... They were all watered using bottom watering and the nutrients were mixed by the gallon to insure uniform strength for all plants... In my case, I believe that I added a larger dose of nutrients to my two Aji Mangos that have wrinkled new growth...  If we can figure out a solution to your plant's issue, then it may help me verify the issue with mine...
 
BTW, I'm glad to see another Central Florida resident here on THP!!!

 
Most of the leaves are crazy looking. I'll post more photos showing the full plant(s). I can also shoot a video that may help a bit. 
Nothing has really changed, I used Miracle Gro when the plants were under lights indoors. 
They were transplanted around the end of Feb/beginning of March, possibly a bit earlier since winter ended quite early here. 
Nutrients were applied right after transplant, and mycorrhizae during transplant and after. 
The main change I noticed was when using neem oil to battle white fly. Leaves drooped/fell off and the plants all looked unhappy and nearly dead. All others recovered. 
There are blooms on there, none of opened yet and only a few have dropped off. 
 
 
Everyone, thanks for your comments, they're very much appreciated. For now I'll take your advice and hold off on further nutrient application. When I do apply nutrients again, do you have suggestions as far as which to use? Would fish emulsion be enough? I made an assumption that a bit extra 'juice' would be needed for the flowering process. 
 
I'll be picking up a pH meter and will be testing the soil shortly. I plan on pruning off some of the leaves to induce new growth, which shouldn't cause too much stress. Would topping the plants cause too much stress at this point? 

 

[Baseman]

Here is where you went wrong imo...MG is bad and will burn your plants!! I did a experiment with it at the start and the one plant I used it on had some mutant leaves. As soon as I switched to fox farm it started putting out "normal" leaves. MG uses the cheapest stuff hence the price! In almost everything I've learned in life is you get what you pay for. But yeah switch nutrients!!

 

[nicksbonsai]

Here is where you went wrong imo...MG is bad and will burn your plants!! I did a experiment with it at the start and the one plant I used it on had some mutant leaves. As soon as I switched to fox farm it started putting out "normal" leaves. MG uses the cheapest stuff hence the price! In almost everything I've learned in life is you get what you pay for. But yeah switch nutrients!!

 
Thanks for the advice. I've heard the name Fox Farm, does any place like Home Depot or Lowes carry it? I'm not necessarily a fan of Miracle Gro but use it on various things, including all my bonsai, with no issues. I'm not making an argument for using it, just surprised as this is the first time I've had a negative outcome. I'm definitely willing to change the program with the peppers. By all accounts, fish emulsion should still be safe to apply weekly or so. 
 
And I definitely agree with 'you get what you pay for'. I've experienced enough heartache to know that's 100% true. 

 

[suchen]

How often and how thoroughly do you water? I have noticed similar conditions when I potted up my bhut into a 15gal pot and it subsequently got inundated with torrential rain. The root zone still has not dried two weeks later.

 

[Baseman]

 
Thanks for the advice. I've heard the name Fox Farm, does any place like Home Depot or Lowes carry it? I'm not necessarily a fan of Miracle Gro but use it on various things, including all my bonsai, with no issues. I'm not making an argument for using it, just surprised as this is the first time I've had a negative outcome. I'm definitely willing to change the program with the peppers. By all accounts, fish emulsion should still be safe to apply weekly or so. 
 
And I definitely agree with 'you get what you pay for'. I've experienced enough heartache to know that's 100% true. 

i would go with the Internet for fox farm...I use the Grow Big for and the Tiger bloom. Both are for tomatoes but peppers like the same nurients so it's a win win. Start out with a low dose so you don't burn the plant. And on MG I know it works on some stuff but yeah when I tried it with peppers it didn't work well at all and I had the same problem you did.

 

[suchen]

I used 1/4 the recommended dose of Grow Big, but added at every watering (every 3-4 days now)for the first several weeks after they went outside. Plants are anecdotally much bigger and bushier, but I changed too many variables to say whether the 1/4 strength ferts are helping.

 

[nicksbonsai]

How often and how thoroughly do you water? I have noticed similar conditions when I potted up my bhut into a 15gal pot and it subsequently got inundated with torrential rain. The root zone still has not dried two weeks later.

 
If the temps are above 90, which has been the case for a month or so except for an odd week, I water daily. I actually recently did some reading and watched a few YouTube videos on the subject of watering. Some peppers apparently have different watering needs and tolerate moisture/sun/heat differently. It's looking like the reapers, specifically, do not like what's going on. Some are in raised beds and some are in containers but exhibit the same thing. At the local hydroponic supply store, they mentioned that some hybrid or 'frankenstein' plants will exhibit different symptoms than similar plants, which may also be at play here. 
 
I had cut back watering, which I'll monitor more carefully - although I've watered any peppers that start drooping - and will be testing pH for each raised bed and for potted reapers. 
 
I'll also be sharing more/better photos per a few requests in this thread. 

 

[Brohio82]

I have this problem with some as well, I think it is the ferts your using I tried something new my buddy was using and it is a little higher in phosphorus no leaves have turned yellow or died like that but how they crinkle are simular. I think phosphorus overdose is both of our problem with those plants

 

[Jamison]

Looks like bugs to me on the underside of that leaf as far as I can see from the photo. Do you have an aphid infestation?