Does pod shape dictate offspring shape?

[Pepper Merchant]

I know that some plants can cross pollinate and the seeds inside a normal reaper will provide a different pepper if crossed.

I also understand picking the most ripe free from defects (mold bugs ECT) will produce better seeds...

But does picking the best 'looking' pod dictate if the plant grown from those seeds to have the same traits as the pod?

Example: if I pick all my pods with tails and save only those seeds will I be more likely to have a plant next year with those tails.

 

[BlackFatalii]

But does picking the best 'looking' pod dictate if the plant grown from those seeds to have the same traits as the pod?

Example: if I pick all my pods with tails and save only those seeds will I be more likely to have a plant next year with those tails.

I don't think it works that way, since pod shapes are determined by the genetics of the mother plant and not by the genes of the seeds inside the individual pods.

But if you have more than one plant, then saving seeds from the plant that produces the best phenotypes is more likely to have the effect you are looking for, especially if you keep doing that over multiple generations.

 

[The_NorthEast_ChileMan]

1.) I know that some plants can cross pollinate and the seeds inside a normal reaper will provide a different pepper if crossed.

2.) I also understand picking the most ripe free from defects (mold bugs ECT) will produce better seeds...

3.) But does picking the best 'looking' pod dictate if the plant grown from those seeds to have the same traits as the pod?

4.) Example: if I pick all my pods with tails and save only those seeds will I be more likely to have a plant next year with those tails.

 
I am far from an expert but I want to try to clear up a few things without getting technical:
 
1.) The plant growing from last seasons seeds already has it's gene pool determined.
2.) That is correct.
3.) My response is I don't know. As stated in 1 the gene pool is determined by the plant and the resulting pod shape is dependent on that.  I have read many posts that this is best practice but unsure of exact accuracy.
4.) The seeds in that pod can be cross pollinated affecting this trait.
 

Hey CD, any help here?

I don't think it works that way, since pod shapes are determined by the genetics of the mother plant and not by the genes of the seeds inside the individual pods.

But if you have more than one plant, then saving seeds from the plant that produces the best phenotypes is more likely to have the effect you are looking for, especially if you keep doing that over multiple generations.

 

[Dulac]

If their is no cross-pollination, the genes are the same in each fruit. It's pollinating itself and phenotypes are not expressed until the next grow. You gotta look at a plants as a whole rather than individual fruit. Save the ones with the healthiest seeds. The formation of tails and other shapes also have an environmental factor.

 

[boutros]

Example: if I pick all my pods with tails and save only those seeds will I be more likely to have a plant next year with those tails.

 
I always do this, save seeds from the desired shape, or biggest healthiest looking pods.  I have no idea if it really does much, but how else are you gonna do it?  Nobody cuts open a crappy pod and says "wow, these seeds look great, better save these.."

 

[Dulac]

 
I always do this, save seeds from the desired shape, or biggest healthiest looking pods.  I have no idea if it really does much, but how else are you gonna do it?  Nobody cuts open a crappy pod and says "wow, these seeds look great, better save these.."

It does nothing at all. Peppers are self-pollinating sans a few living fossils of species we don't typically grow. The seeds from the undesired fruit on the same plant have the same genes as the ones with a desired shape. With that knowledge, you shouldn't worry about which one has the best shape and just save healthy seeds. If you want to do selection, you will want to grow many plants of the variety that has the traits you like. You will want to do a different sort of analysis I think. Perhaps which plant has the has the most fruit with tails or whatever the desired trait is. You may want to use different sources for seeds to compare the traits you want of the same pepper variety.

 

[Pepper Merchant]

Excellent this is the information I had been looking for. Thanks to all who replied, I was doing some reading this week and came across a post where someone had only saved seeds from their best looking pods and then I was curious as I had never considered that. Thanks for clearing that up!

 

[CaneDog]

I am far from an expert but I want to try to clear up a few things without getting technical:
 
1.) The plant growing from last seasons seeds already has it's gene pool determined.
2.) That is correct.
3.) My response is I don't know. As stated in 1 the gene pool is determined by the plant and the resulting pod shape is dependent on that.  I have read many posts that this is best practice but unsure of exact accuracy.
4.) The seeds in that pod can be cross pollinated affecting this trait.

 
Responding to NECM quoting me in, above, I read the OP right after BlackFatalii posted and because I thought he hit the nail right on the head I simply "liked" his post rather than posting myself .
 
Here's my understanding of how it works - very similar to what others have posted:
 
1. The pods on a plant are a result of that plant's genetics, a single genetic expression, and environment, which can have a big effect on pod shape, size, and even color with a narrower range.
 
2.  Selecting a particular pod from a plant is irrelevant, but selecting a particular plant among multiple is important.
 
3.  If you isolate a plant such that it self-pollinates, each seed of the plant can have a different combination of the mother's generics to the extent of the mother's heterogeneity, i.e., the single parent plant splits and recombines its DNA for each seed through the process of producing ova and pollen grains.  So, each heterozygotic genetic locus with a dominant/recessive pairing will pattern after a standard 25/50/25 distribution.
 
This last point means each seed has a chance equal to that of every other of having the desired genetics. Logically, that says to me pick the healthiest pod, but I'm not above doing like boutros and picking the ones that look most like what I want even without any known scientific basis

 

[Dulac]

3.  If you isolate a plant such that it self-pollinates, each seed of the plant can have a different combination of the mother's generics to the extent of the mother's heterogeneity, i.e., the single parent plant splits and recombines its DNA for each seed through the process of producing ova and pollen grains.  So, each heterozygotic genetic locus with a dominant/recessive pairing will pattern after a standard 25/50/25 distribution.
 
This last point means each seed has a chance equal to that of every other of having the desired genetics. Logically, that says to me pick the healthiest pod, but I'm not above doing like boutros and picking the ones that look most like what I want even without any known scientific basis
 

 
I didn't want to get too complicated and go into your 3rd part, but that is true. Of course we don't know anything based on the shape of the fruit, which you also agree with. I want to caution picking the best looking fruit. The best looking fruit could potentially have bad seeds. This true of one of my hybrids. All of the seeds were inviable(it doesn't produce many seeds to start with). If the seeds look spectacular, then there is no harm. However, examine the seeds. As a precaution, it's also good to collect seeds from different fruit to avoid bad seeds and keep them separate just in case of cross-pollination.

 

[sinensis]

hey CaneDog, having taken the basic suite of bio classes back in university, what you say makes sense. but are you familiar with some phenomenon where pollen partner does affect fruit appearance in some plants?
 
i don't think it happens with peppers, but i've heard that less-suitable pollen partners can negatively impact the appearance/quality of fruit in plants like chestnuts and various Rosaceae species.
 
do you happen to know the name of this phenomenon? looking for something to google so i can read up

 

[boutros]

Been growing for about twenty years, but I would say “causally” lol. I always tended to just grab the best looking pods as I pretty much thought they’d be the best by default. Interesting info from everyone above though, thanks! These are the some of the reasons
I keep coming back here.

 

[acs1]

What does it mean when a few seeds in great looking pods are black color, differing from the majority in the pod being tan/off white colored seed..?

 

[The_NorthEast_ChileMan]

What does it mean when a few seeds in great looking pods are black color, differing from the majority in the pod being tan/off white colored seed..?

 
Brief search turned up.>What causes black seeds? (not pubes lol)