soil Evaluate my soil mix

B

Bjornson

Hey pepper nerds!  :dance:
 
This year I'm going for a new soil mix on the last repotting and I'm curious on your thoughts. Previous seasons I've used some regular potting mix and just added perlite. I want to try something new this year though and take it to the next level.
 
This is the plan:
 
Potting mix
Coir
Perlite or vermiculite
Bat guano
Neem fert (powder)
Epsom salt
 
What do you think? Any input on the soil, coir and perlite/vermiculite ratios?
 
Swampy_NZ said:
I agree with Perlite over vermiculite and not adding Epson salts.looks fine otherwise.
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Pfeffer said:
Perlite and vermiculite have different traits. With the coir I would opt for perlite over vermiculite due to the water management.

I also wouldn't add Epson salt to the mix.. Just water with it instead. (If that wasn't your plan already).
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Thanks for your input! Any thoughts on the soil and coir ratios?
 
Bjornson said:
 
 
 
Thanks for your input! Any thoughts on the soil and coir ratios?
Click to expand...
I don't use coir.My mix is potting mix,compost,pumice,sheep and chicken pellets.dolomite lime and some worm castings
 
It might work.
But like others have said, best to use the epsom salts in solution a little later.
Neem powder is technically a fert, but more often used as a soil-based insecticide. The kicker is it needs to breakdown in the mix for 20-60 days to avoid tying up nitrogen as it breaks down.
In the States, lots of different things will pass for potting mix, so it's hard to say for sure.
As others have said, Vermiculite and perlite are not interchangable. Perlite is good for giving peat and compost aeration and making sure they drain well.
Vermiculite is used mostly to help a soil-mix retain and distribute water. 
If I used bat guano at all it would be as a feed for flowering plants at time of plant-out so in 30 days it will have been processed into the soil biology. I do use Seabird Guano because it does have quick available nitrogen and good slow feeds of nitrogen and phosporus in reserve.
 
I love coir. It may need a little pH buffering with gympsum(Calcium Sulfate), and the plants need calcium too.
 
Here is a shot-in-the-dark recipe with your ingredients
 
potting mix  33%
perlite          33%
Coir              33%
 
for every 28 litres of mix add .25L gypsum, .75L of guano, .25L of powdered seaweed(kelp)
 
If you want to keep it really simple, use 100% coir and water(non-chlorinated) the plants daily with a weak solution of guano tea and liquid kelp gradually increasing the strength.
Once per week flush with pure water.
 
JJJessee said:
It might work.
But like others have said, best to use the epsom salts in solution a little later.
Neem powder is technically a fert, but more often used as a soil-based insecticide. The kicker is it needs to breakdown in the mix for 20-60 days to avoid tying up nitrogen as it breaks down.
In the States, lots of different things will pass for potting mix, so it's hard to say for sure.
As others have said, Vermiculite and perlite are not interchangable. Perlite is good for giving peat and compost aeration and making sure they drain well.
Vermiculite is used mostly to help a soil-mix retain and distribute water. 
If I used bat guano at all it would be as a feed for flowering plants at time of plant-out so in 30 days it will have been processed into the soil biology. I do use Seabird Guano because it does have quick available nitrogen and good slow feeds of nitrogen and phosporus in reserve.
 
I love coir. It may need a little pH buffering with gympsum(Calcium Sulfate), and the plants need calcium too.
 
Here is a shot-in-the-dark recipe with your ingredients
 
potting mix  33%
perlite          33%
Coir              33%
 
for every 28 litres of mix add .25L gypsum, .75L of guano, .25L of powdered seaweed(kelp)
 
If you want to keep it really simple, use 100% coir and water(non-chlorinated) the plants daily with a weak solution of guano tea and liquid kelp gradually increasing the strength.
Once per week flush with pure water.
Click to expand...
Big thanks for all this help!
 
As for the neem powder, are you suggesting mixing the soil 20-60 days before transplanting the plants, or how do you solve this problem? I should mention I'm growing peppers indoors.
 
I should also mention that I'm planning on giving the plants a fert called "Chilli Focus" which is NPK 3-1-4.4. When flowering I'll use bat guano NKP 2-12-2, probably as a simple solution/tea (water and bat guano which sits for 24 hours).
 
Any recommendations on what I could use to complement these ferts if I want to keep it pretty simple?
 
Those look like plenty of ferts. The only issue would be if they are readily available to the plants. N-P-K values are more meaningful in a non-organic grow because the plants can uptake them directly with water. Organic NPK requires to some extent the actions of soil microbes to get them into plant usable form.
 
Yes, 20 days at least is what I've heard on the neem. To my understanding what happens when you mix a fine particle high-carbon substance (like sawdust ,and I'm guessing the neem powder too ) in the ground, it inserts itself into the carbon-nitrogen cycle and and you risk depriving seedlings of nitrogen. You could try to compensate with the some water soluble nitrogen from the Seabird Guano or fish emulsion. Most organic fert that list nitrogen will show a soluble and insoluble nitrogen proportion. The soluble is what the plant can use now, the insoluble over a longer period of time.
 
With an organic mix, you technically should let it sit for a few weeks before you use it. Although with my mixes, depending on when I make it I might just use it right then and there, but I do so knowing there's already readily available nutrients in the mix.
 
If you are going to use coir, then it is not necessary to use vermiculite b/c they basically do the same thing. Coir is the better of the two though. Epsom salts you can water in and a lot of people will do diluted watering throughout the grow cycle, or you can toss a spoon full into the transplant whole when you plant out and just let nature take over. That said I watered with epsom salt maybe twice last year; too much of a good thing is just as bad as not enough ;-) This year I think I will experiment with both ways.
 
You've got all the bits and bobs, mix in the ratio Jesse mentioned and you'll be fine, though it really depends on the composition of the potting soil. Light on the guano. Most of the recommended "tea" rates come from cannabis growers, and they're typically overfeeding anyway.
 
 
JJJessee said:
Those look like plenty of ferts. The only issue would be if they are readily available to the plants. N-P-K values are more meaningful in a non-organic grow because the plants can uptake them directly with water. Organic NPK requires to some extent the actions of soil microbes to get them into plant usable form.
 
Yes, 20 days at least is what I've heard on the neem. To my understanding what happens when you mix a fine particle high-carbon substance (like sawdust ,and I'm guessing the neem powder too ) in the ground, it inserts itself into the carbon-nitrogen cycle and and you risk depriving seedlings of nitrogen. You could try to compensate with the some water soluble nitrogen from the Seabird Guano or fish emulsion. Most organic fert that list nitrogen will show a soluble and insoluble nitrogen proportion. The soluble is what the plant can use now, the insoluble over a longer period of time.
Click to expand...
 
Wouldn't the high nitrogen of neem cover this?
 
miguelovic said:
You've got all the bits and bobs, mix in the ratio Jesse mentioned and you'll be fine, though it really depends on the composition of the potting soil. Light on the guano. Most of the recommended "tea" rates come from cannabis growers, and they're typically overfeeding anyway.
 
 
 
Wouldn't the high nitrogen of neem cover this?
Click to expand...
Neem is a high nitrogen(5-2-1) part of the mix, but my concern here is that it is too fresh to mix straight into seedling soil. It might be better or safer as a top dressing later. But I'm basing this on 20% research,  30% caution, 50% lack of experience. :D
 
filmost said:
With an organic mix, you technically should let it sit for a few weeks before you use it. Although with my mixes, depending on when I make it I might just use it right then and there, but I do so knowing there's already readily available nutrients in the mix.
 
If you are going to use coir, then it is not necessary to use vermiculite b/c they basically do the same thing. Coir is the better of the two though. Epsom salts you can water in and a lot of people will do diluted watering throughout the grow cycle, or you can toss a spoon full into the transplant whole when you plant out and just let nature take over. That said I watered with epsom salt maybe twice last year; too much of a good thing is just as bad as not enough ;-) This year I think I will experiment with both ways.
Click to expand...
OK maybe I should just mix equal parts of potting soil and coir then. Perlite is expensive here in Sweden anyways :)
 
miguelovic said:
You've got all the bits and bobs, mix in the ratio Jesse mentioned and you'll be fine, though it really depends on the composition of the potting soil. Light on the guano. Most of the recommended "tea" rates come from cannabis growers, and they're typically overfeeding anyway.
 
 
 
Wouldn't the high nitrogen of neem cover this?
Click to expand...
The potting soil I will use should be dark, rich with lots of humus and should have OK drainage. However I haven't tried this particular brand before. Nutrition wise it's NPK 210-105-225 mg/l. I will probably have to add some fert 2-3 weeks after repotting the plants. As for the bat guano I will use it when the plants are flowering.
 
JJJessee said:
Neem is a high nitrogen(5-2-1) part of the mix, but my concern here is that it is too fresh to mix straight into seedling soil. It might be better or safer as a top dressing later. But I'm basing this on 20% research,  30% caution, 50% lack of experience. :D
Click to expand...
I probably should read more about this before doing anything :)
 
Thanks guys!
 
filmost said:
This doesn't last neem, but it's a good reference for common amendments and their burn potential

http://www.ext.colostate.edu/mg/gardennotes/234.html
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Thanks filmost!

filmost said:
This doesn't last neem, but it's a good reference for common amendments and their burn potential

http://www.ext.colostate.edu/mg/gardennotes/234.html
Click to expand...
Okay this is my plan:
Based on this information, the high phosphate bat guano (2-12-2) I have has a release time of 4+ months. I'm planning on transplanting the plants to their final pots in April, which means the well needed phosphorous during blooming/fruiting and preparation for overwintering will be ready for plant uptake in August-October. Bat guano is not a high-carbon substance, right? So I shouldn't be worried about the plants getting deprived on nitrogen.
 
Or am I reading this wrong?
"Release Time – Organic products require the activity of soil microorganisms before nutrients are available for plant uptake. Microorganism activity is generally dependant on soil temperatures greater than 50°F in the presence of sufficient soil moisture. Dry and/or cold soil conditions will delay the release of nutrients from these organic sources. This period refers to how long these products are available if applied to the soil. Use this information to time the application of the product."
 
Is the release time referring to the time in which the nutrients are ready for plant uptake, or how long the nutrients last?
 
the little 3 liter bags of perlite are expensive, try finding a store that carries 100 liter bags.. usually you get 1x 100 liter bag for the price of 2 or 2½ of the small commercial baggies. Here the 3 liter bags are 5.99 euro, the 100 liter  bag is 14 euro..
 
Pfeffer said:
the little 3 liter bags of perlite are expensive, try finding a store that carries 100 liter bags.. usually you get 1x 100 liter bag for the price of 2 or 2½ of the small commercial baggies. Here the 3 liter bags are 5.99 euro, the 100 liter  bag is 14 euro..
Click to expand...
Thanks for the tip! The small bags are indeed expensive. Hopefully the coir will do the same job which is a lot cheaper :)
 
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