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Fine or coarse perlite with potting mix?
- Thread starter Jase4224
- Start date
there is no "ideal" range, only the range that works best for you.
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50% perlite is what i use, aka cornell peat lite, but multiple waterings each day are required. without automated irrigation, the plants wilt down to nothing in like 3 hours.
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perlite is expensive, so many folks just go with like 10% + sand and deal with the lack of pore space and lack of oxygen permeation. its all up to you.
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50/50 perlite and soiless medium is best imho, but far from ideal to most people.
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regarding the sized... 5-6mm sounds like those large perlite pebbles? those are great, but very expensive down where i am... like 60 bucks for 4 cubic feet. the smaller "medium coarse" perlite is like 1/4" to 1/8" pebbles and like 30-40 bucks a cubic foot.
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i always go with the cheaper perlite. if the bigger perlite is cheaper or the same price, id go with that personally. it should create more pore space, more oxygen permeability and better drainage. but if the bigger perlite is more expensive, id tell them to f**k off and get the cheap stuff.
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50% perlite is what i use, aka cornell peat lite, but multiple waterings each day are required. without automated irrigation, the plants wilt down to nothing in like 3 hours.
Â
perlite is expensive, so many folks just go with like 10% + sand and deal with the lack of pore space and lack of oxygen permeation. its all up to you.
Â
50/50 perlite and soiless medium is best imho, but far from ideal to most people.
Â
regarding the sized... 5-6mm sounds like those large perlite pebbles? those are great, but very expensive down where i am... like 60 bucks for 4 cubic feet. the smaller "medium coarse" perlite is like 1/4" to 1/8" pebbles and like 30-40 bucks a cubic foot.
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i always go with the cheaper perlite. if the bigger perlite is cheaper or the same price, id go with that personally. it should create more pore space, more oxygen permeability and better drainage. but if the bigger perlite is more expensive, id tell them to f**k off and get the cheap stuff.
this stuff is like 20$ at local nurseries near me(they get it in bulk for 10$), that's what most people do. I don't think they screen it much so it has a range of particle sizes(see) and usually has dust in the bottom of bag, but is cheaper than the super coarse perlite(5mm +)..
Oh i see you are in AUS so probably different.Â
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yup i think ima go 50% perlite but have irrigation drippers / timer so i don't have to do anything manually and will water everyday. 25% probably better for most people.
Oh i see you are in AUS so probably different.Â
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yup i think ima go 50% perlite but have irrigation drippers / timer so i don't have to do anything manually and will water everyday. 25% probably better for most people.
Âjuanitos said:this stuff is like 20$ at local nurseries near me(they get it in bulk for 10$), that's what most people do. I don't think they screen it much so it has a range of particle sizes but is cheaper than the super coarse perlite(5mm +)..
Oh i see you are in AUS so probably different.Â
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yup i think ima go 50% perlite but have irrigation drippers / timer so i don't have to do anything manually and will water everyday. 25% probably better for most people.
20 bucks? thats like half what im usually paying.
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the nursuries only sell these tiny 1 cu ft bags. HD sells larger bags like 3 cubic foot for like 27 bucks?
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the hydro store and the seed n' fertilizer co sell 4 cubic foot for like 38 bucks last year at least. maby ill call around this year, see if a better deal can be had.Â
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i think promix BX is 20% perlite? it works very well for most poeple amended with organics, or with straight hydro nutrients.
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promix HP is like 25 or 30% perlite? its the same price i believe. more popular id say.
yeah call/goto local nursery type places, not stores and ask for the big bag. I was amazed when i found out you can find it for so cheap. it comes in a huge bag is weird because the bag only weighs like 20lbs compared to the soil bags, my daughter was carrying it around even though it's twice her size. one place had different brand but similar product/price. heres one from lowes i see.queequeg152 said:
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yeah i think bx is newer with the myco so people haven't used it as much but both hp and bx are great.
Âjuanitos said:
both of those bags ive never seen... both places i go to only carry the sunshine perlite. definatly going to call around this time.
wow lowes sells the 4 cubic foot bag in your area too? 18 bucks? what the fuck.
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why is houston getting shafted so hard for perlite.
$ 20 here also , Â
pummice is basically natural perlite. if it is cheaper id just go with that.
ive neve seen pummice though. maby its an austrailia thing?
ive neve seen pummice though. maby its an austrailia thing?
yep, from what i understand it is a bit of a geographical thingqueequeg152 said:
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Its widely available down here in NZ for much cheaper than perlite. Not sure how available it is in Australia, but I would get it from Bunnings, and I know OP will have Bunnings where he is located, so worth a shot!
I can get perlite at a reasonable price from my hydro store, As far as I know promix isn't available here. Sucks cos I would give it a go if I could get it.
It makes sense that larger 5-6mm perlite would give larger pockets of air. I do remember reading here somewhere that similar sized particles do allow for better drainage so that's why I'm considering the smaller 1-3mm size.
Also I think that s finer perlite size would be more 'spread out' throughout the media.. any thoughts on this?
It makes sense that larger 5-6mm perlite would give larger pockets of air. I do remember reading here somewhere that similar sized particles do allow for better drainage so that's why I'm considering the smaller 1-3mm size.
Also I think that s finer perlite size would be more 'spread out' throughout the media.. any thoughts on this?
larger particles should hold less water in their own right, but who knows whats going on when you add larger particles to a soilless mix. there is alot going on there so its hard to justify extending that principle to a soil less mixture without some evidence. given the choice however, id go with the larger perlite hoping the above was infact true.
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small particles actually have a much greater theoretical pore space, but only when dry. some clays have a higer pore space than sand even. clays however will not flow water worth shit. they have ionic interactions with water AND extreemly extreemly poor permeability owing to a very very well arranged lattice configuration.
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clays are used in some well constructions to exclude surface water from the well bore. properly done, the clay seal makes it basically impossible for surface contamination to make it down far enough to contaminate the ground water.
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when wet, hydrophillic particles hold a film of water around them. stacking lots of small particles with their respective films leads to less oxygen than if you had larger particles.
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moreover small particles create a stronger capillary effect than larger particles. more capillary force means you have a higher perched water table and more air is displaced. as the water table remains higher for longer.
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more surface tension due to the tiny particles also means that the soil can hold the water more tightly, meaning that the roots of your plants have to try harder to pull the water away. this can be measured by a tensiometer. higher tension means the plants will wilt sooner at higher soil moistures owing to the soil holding onto the water more.
a good soilless mix will have like 25% of the tension of a regular soil full of clay and sand and what ever else.
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there isnt like... a linear relationship to water tension verses particle size. i think it grows radically as you approach sub milimeter sizes. at some point the tension rises past the point where most plants roots can effectivly use the water. where that point is idk exactly.
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likewise you cant use particles so large that they hold so little water that the plants stress, or cant anchor themselves, or just dont hold water... im imagining a bucked full of river stones or something.Â
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thing about perlite is like a scifi asteroid full of holes and craters and passages and shit, so you can get huge ass potato sized perlite chunks stacked together... and they would still hold significant amounts of water due to the porous nature of the chunks themselves. im sure there is a cutoff point wherein perlite chunks can get TOO bug... but dont know where that cutoff point is TBH.
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basically larger particles = more pore spaces not filled with water = lower perched water table = easier for plants to pull the water away from the particles-Â up untill some point.
Â
small particles actually have a much greater theoretical pore space, but only when dry. some clays have a higer pore space than sand even. clays however will not flow water worth shit. they have ionic interactions with water AND extreemly extreemly poor permeability owing to a very very well arranged lattice configuration.
Â
clays are used in some well constructions to exclude surface water from the well bore. properly done, the clay seal makes it basically impossible for surface contamination to make it down far enough to contaminate the ground water.
Â
when wet, hydrophillic particles hold a film of water around them. stacking lots of small particles with their respective films leads to less oxygen than if you had larger particles.
Â
Â
moreover small particles create a stronger capillary effect than larger particles. more capillary force means you have a higher perched water table and more air is displaced. as the water table remains higher for longer.
Â
more surface tension due to the tiny particles also means that the soil can hold the water more tightly, meaning that the roots of your plants have to try harder to pull the water away. this can be measured by a tensiometer. higher tension means the plants will wilt sooner at higher soil moistures owing to the soil holding onto the water more.
a good soilless mix will have like 25% of the tension of a regular soil full of clay and sand and what ever else.
Â
there isnt like... a linear relationship to water tension verses particle size. i think it grows radically as you approach sub milimeter sizes. at some point the tension rises past the point where most plants roots can effectivly use the water. where that point is idk exactly.
Â
likewise you cant use particles so large that they hold so little water that the plants stress, or cant anchor themselves, or just dont hold water... im imagining a bucked full of river stones or something.Â
Â
thing about perlite is like a scifi asteroid full of holes and craters and passages and shit, so you can get huge ass potato sized perlite chunks stacked together... and they would still hold significant amounts of water due to the porous nature of the chunks themselves. im sure there is a cutoff point wherein perlite chunks can get TOO bug... but dont know where that cutoff point is TBH.
Â
basically larger particles = more pore spaces not filled with water = lower perched water table = easier for plants to pull the water away from the particles-Â up untill some point.