Getting into 3-ways.........

Nigel

Nigel

Of course, I mean making hybrids between 3 varieties, perverts  :rofl:
 
If I want to make a hybrid between 3 or more varieties, what is the procedure?
 
What I mean, I guess, is do I make a 2 variety cross, stabiles that over 6-10 years, then cross the stable strain with the third variety, and go through the stabilisation procedure again. Of course, I could make 2 crosses, stabilise both, then cross the stable hybrids to give a 4-way cross. 12-20 years in the making. 
 
I`ve seen 7-pot bubblegum x Borg 9, for instance. By my count that`s a 5-way, although BB7 is used twice. 
 
Just wondering how anyone can make 3-ways and above and hope to get something that would stabilise at all.
 
I would go about making a 3 way by first making an f1 then grow it out until f2 choose the correct phenotype you want then make the secondary cross and grow out to stabilization
 
Nightshade said:
I would go about making a 3 way by first making an f1 then grow it out until f2 choose the correct phenotype you want then make the secondary cross and grow out to stabilization
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But at F2, you won`t have stabilised the genetics of the first cross, so by crossing that you could lose a lot of what you wanted in the first cross, couldn`t you? 
 
But you can always back cross again with the f2 if you happen to lose something you want and you will be going back through the phenotype selection again anyways so you will have to pick what you want again once you make the secondary cross.
 
It's all fun and games until some one catches feelings.....oh wait lol
 
 
 
Not sure if that's the correct way to do it or not but if so,clearly folks don't do it right.  Been seeing a lot of supposed 3 way crosses lately and there's no way they're multiple years old.  Honestly I sometimes wonder if half of them are just accidental crosses where one guy say yup, looks a little like X pepper, but this seed came from X plant.  then another guy goes hey man looks a bit like X as well.  By golly that's a 3 way cross. 
 
edit-forgot a word or two lol
 
Nightshade said:
But you can always back cross again with the f2 if you happen to lose something you want and you will be going back through the phenotype selection again anyways so you will have to pick what you want again once you make the secondary cross.
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Wouldn`t that cause so many phenotypes AND genotypes you`d get lost in the forest of plants? This years desired phenotype might be combined with an unstable genotype, enough that next year`s seed won`t grow anything you`d want. I`m not being argumentative or saying you are wrong, I just don`t understand how to go about this process in a logical way.
 
When I was in the lab, if  wanted to make cells that expressed 3 genes I could use 3 selectable markers where anything without the 3 markers was killed off quickly, only cells with the 3 markers survived. In plant breeding you can`t do this because the phenotype you want is possibly due to tens or hundreds of genes and you have no markers other than how it looks or tastes. Because we are humans, not machines, this might change slightly from year to year. 
 
If you want mice with 3 alterations in the genes, you make them sequentially one at a time. It`s the only way to be sure you will get what you want in the end.
 
You lost me with all the science talk lol and all I know is that whatever route you take its going to be over 10 years long lol
 
I opened this thinking I'd have an answer and..... nope, nothing.  This does raise a lot of questions.  I'm not sure there is really a "right" or a "wrong" way to do it.

And I totally agree with browning,  I think a lot of accidental crosses are being passed off as intentional (nothing wrong with an accidental cross, if it provides desirable results)


I'm hoping somebody with more technical breeding expertise will chime in,  as I'm greatly curious 
 
Nigel, while I have zero experience with plant breeding, from everything I've read and approaching this from the science perspective I think that in order to truly develop the traits you desire from a three way cross and make it stable you must cross one at a time. Maybe spicegeist can chime in on this from his experience in crossing. But I think you explained it to yourself logically in your second post :)
 
Ya need acres man.....
Acres.
All full of little greenhouses with each iteration of your chosen phenotype for all the ones you want to cross.
 
Hire an old "California Cash Crop" grower with a medical card to do it for you.
 
Keep him stocked with doritos and you'll have your result in a couple years. :party:
 
 
In plant breeding you can`t do this because the phenotype you want is possibly due to tens or hundreds of genes and you have no markers other than how it looks or tastes
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If yer Monsanto, you can do it.
 
Hi Nigel,
 
by definition a 3-way hybrid is simply the result from the cross between one parent that is an F1 hybrid and the other is from an inbred line.
 
It's faster than you think :)... the hard part is stabilization.
 
Cya
 
Datil
 
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