How important is envirornment ?

AJ Drew

AJ Drew

According to the creator of the Carolina Reaper, the pepper was created by crossing a habanero with a ghost pepper.  According to the creator of the 7 Pot Primo, the pepper was created by crossing a Naga Morich with the 7 Pot Original strain.  According to Guinness World Records, the Carolina Reaper is the hottest pepper in the world.  Thing is, there are many SHU tests which show the 7 Pot Primo to be hotter than the Carolina Reaper.  I think it is due to growing conditions.
 
Many of the super hots available today are in the same general range of heat.  Does anyone else get the feeling the right conditions and enough testing could demonstrate that most of them could take the title?
 
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I have noticed that if they are grown in my tunnel they seem to be 2x as hot as the ones grown in the regular garden.
 
Biggy said:
I have noticed that if they are grown in my tunnel they seem to be 2x as hot as the ones grown in the regular garden.
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Is your tunnel dryer?  I get much better growth in the tunnel when we have a wet season.  Have read hydroponic and aquaponic peppers tend to be not as hot.  Maybe the placenta grows larger in dry seasons to protect the seed?  Hmmmm...
 
AJ Drew said:
 
Many of the super hots available today are in the same general range of heat.  Does anyone else get the feeling the right conditions and enough testing could demonstrate that most of them could take the title?
 
 
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It wouldn't surprise me if that were the case. The Moruga Scorpion has been tested at 2 million SHU, and the Reaper at 2.2 million. That's just a 10% difference between the two. And when you consider that the heat of individual pods can vary a bit even off the same plant, it's not hard to imagine that one could find some Morugas or Douglahs or Primos or whatever that might score a little above the Reaper's 2.2 million top end. Like you said, the very high-end supers do all seem to be in roughly the same "class" of heat, or at least they do to me. I also remember reading a study (done with annuums, but still) that showed that peppers that ripened in warmer temperature tended to have more capsaicinoids in them than those that ripened in cooler temperatures. I observed something similar in my own grow. Some habs I had ripen in December-January timeframe didn't have nearly the same heat as habs that ripened three months earlier, even though they were from the same plant. And I think Ed Currie once said something to the effect that using the runoff from a worm farm helped him to grow hotter peppers. So yeah, I think the total heat of a pod is likely a combination of both the plant's genetics and the conditions it was grown in.
 
As far as whether another high-end superhot could beat the Reaper to take the title, that may be a moot point soon. Ed Currie is claiming 3.18 million SHU for his new pepper. If true, that seems to completely outclass everything else out there. At least, I have not heard of any of the superhots that are available to us testing anywhere near 3 million SHU. 
 
AJ Drew said:
 
Is your tunnel dryer?  I get much better growth in the tunnel when we have a wet season.  Have read hydroponic and aquaponic peppers tend to be not as hot.  Maybe the placenta grows larger in dry seasons to protect the seed?  Hmmmm...
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I think it's dryer in there. That's my assumption, kind of like how watermelon and cantaloupe taste way sweeter when picked before it rains compared to after it rains. In the melons the sugars are concentrated whe dryer. Just my observations over the years.
 
BlackFatalii - I am fairly sure the worm farm run off comment was Nevil at the Hippie Seed company and the Butch T Scorpion.  From memory, he also thought a dry season could increase shu.  I love those folk down under. 
 
The proper chemistry is key to any living organism. And then the chemistry conditions (all of it)  in which a super hot grows are also key to its technical heat. I can imagine that there have been a few, or perhaps many growers that have had peppers in their garden that were hotter than the official record keeper.... How would they know for sure ?
 
Once you get to the class of the very hot and above, it's difficult to measure the actual heat with your mouth !  Instant heat ? Continuous heat ? No matter how the mouth feels it's still.... painfully HOT. Not many have the time or resources to officially test their home grown peppers.
 
I like the names "Carolina Reaper", "Moruga Scorpion" and even "GHOST" ... the names flows off of the tongue easily, but the HEAT does not  :hell:
 
 
Jeff
 
 
 
 
I think that environment plays a huge role in the heat level, and that's why there's so much variation, between plants and pods on plants. But that's why the don't take the peak SHUfor a variety, it's the average. So the Reaper is entered into Guinness at 1.6 million or something like that, not 2.2 million. But how accurate is the average? Are they all pods from the one location, from plants experiencing the same environment? Probably, I'd say. So even then, that average is a high average.

And I can vouch for the greatness of Aussies when it comes to making chillies HOT! But I might be a tiny bit biased... :rofl:
 
So its not crazy to think the Guinness title means very little while it is still in the range of so many peppers?  Now if someone hits 3 million that is a game changer.  But right now it seems like there are a lot of hottest peppers in the world.  Lets face it, many are so close that if you had enough money to test and test and test another one, eventually you would come up with something hotter than any current title holder.
 
Yeah. The only issue would be if any of your tests found the lower outliers, rather than the higher ones. Unless you bribed the lab to ignore the lower data...
 
Not sure who decides what to submit what.  As I understand Guinness, they review what you submit.  Not sure if they contact the lab and ask them the logical questions.  I suppose you could use multiple labs and submit the ones you are happy with.  With the super hots being so very close, it seems like a money game to me.
 
ThatBlondGuy101 said:
$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Thats what it always comes down to in the end, isnt it? Which is a tremendous shame... because it rules out me! :rofl:
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Don't get me wrong.  I do want money.  Money feeds my kids.  But I love gardening and really dig peppers.  We have grown and sold general produce for years.  But when I started focusing on peppers, my imposed her regular rule.  It has to make money if you are going to spend money.  So here I am in a business that is a hobby and I love it.

Again, do I want money?  Well yes.  But I think the flim flam stuff is short term.  I am hoping for a good reputation years after I die and my kids run the place.  Not as much fast money but i think a reputation for a good product at a fair price earns much more in the long run.
 
Aha, I think you got me wrong :D

My meaning was that to have your super hot as the hottest, you have to have the money. The title goes to the highest bidder, so to say.

And what you said about reputation is spot on, it's the net-worth of your reputation that really counts!
 
Very few people eat super hots as a snack. The perfect pepper would be one that combines heat and flavor, when I get a box of super hots, they all go into the drying and grinding process all together. Then get blended into other powders to adjust heat. I think of them as a multiplier. Let Guinness have their records.
 
ThatBlondGuy101 - Right on.  Flash makes money in the short run.  Reputation makes money when the next generation is running things.  So many different directions this thought could go.  There is a place down the way that sells pizza.  I think it is called Papaw's Restaurant.  Its little more than a metal barn with a kitchen, some tables, and chairs.  Pain in the rear to eat there because they only accept cash or checks.  I never carry enough cash to feed a family of four, so it takes an extra trip to the ATM.  But it is my favorite pizza in the area and one of my favorite places to eat.  They never advertise but everyone knows about the place.  Its all reputation.  I think the internet multiplies that a great deal.

Voodoo 6 - I sample super hots to make sure they are coming along right, but I do not enjoy them fresh.  But I only really enjoy them in cooking and sprinkled on a dish like you.  In fact, my business efforts now include lots of Aji and I am going to be offering fresh paprika soon.  I think lots of folk have tastes like ours.  Although we sell things like SFRB of Carolina Reaper, Moruga Scorpion, and other things that melt your face, I am fairly sure nobody is eating them like popcorn while watching TV.  I have to figure when someone gets a box of 30 of those things they have to be making sauces or powders.

Please wish us luck with the addition of milder peppers.  The ultimate goal is to have a line that local chefs and restaurants will want to come out to the farm to select.  But think that is at least a few years away.  Just making the place look nice will take most of the winter.  We are not exactly the most organized folk in the world. 
 
As far as environment goes, I think it plays a huge role. If I go to the supermarket for example, I always look at the country of origin when buying peppers. The jalapenos that are from mexico are significantly hotter than the ones grown locally. Actually all the peppers that I've had from mexico are much hotter than the ones grown locally.
 
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