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favorite How long can I keep myself in Hatch chiles before I need to reset?

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INTLgunMonkey

For almost 20 years, I did 3-4 weeks in NM for work, in Sept-Oct, and unavoidably fell in love with Hatch Chiles.

Back home, I grew Anaheim peppers for stuffing, grilling and roasting, and never considered their relationship to the Hatches that became the side-chick I hid from my wife during those trips. Only recently did I discover the relationship between Hatches and Anaheims- kinda obvious, I guess, but I can be a little slow- don’t judge.

So, this winter, I got some Hatch seeds (labeled “Sandia Hot”) and the plant is doing well- rough start, but I think I missed the perfect transplant window; either way, the plant is thriving now, and the first two greens are about ready for picking. I was usually a “red chile” guy for Hatch season in NM, when given the option, so I think most of these are going to be left for harvesting later.

My question:
Home is USDA 7b, at about 250m, vs Hatch, NM at USDA 7b/8a at 1200m. How much can I expect my fruits to be like the girl I used to run around with every fall, and, if they’re at all similar, how many generations can I expect to keep the seeds going before they end up indistinguishable from the Anaheim plants that Bonnie sells at Home Depot?
 
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Cool that you're doing this, IgM. As long as you protect the plants against cross-pollinating with other types of pepper plants, the seeds should last for indefinite generations. There wouldn't be any significant selective pressure other than perhaps you growing seeds from your favorite plant and that's probably a good thing! As to how much they'll taste like what you remember, that's a tougher question. You may have had varieties other than the Sandia Hot, so there's that. People have differing opinions as to how much different growing conditions affect the "true" taste of local peppers, so you'll likely have to figure that out yourself. My opinion is that you're likely to recognize more similarities than differences.
 
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Thanks for the insight, @CaneDog ,so… I’ve been doing a bit or rabbit holing and learning since I found this website earlier this summer. One of the first holes I went down was the five-species thing, trying to figure out the tags I was seeing on posts here.

I think that part mostly makes sense, and I could probably pick them out except maybe the annum vs the backtum.

How genetically firewalled are those species? I ask because this Hatch plant is *probably* far enough away from my other annums that cross pollination is unlikely- though our bee population is pretty stout because we also keep them.

It IS right next to a chinense, though.

As far as the differences in varieties of Hatch go, I totally get what you’re saying- BUT, I had enough different chiles over that time that I’m pretty certain that I like them all. There is a distinct difference between all the Hatches and all the Anaheims that I’ve eaten that I feel confident that I’d take any variety of Hatch over an Anaheim - even though I love Anaheims (preferably red)- but I don’t think I can describe the characteristic.

I’m just wondering if, since the Hatch became an Anaheim, how much was genetics vs how much was environment, and how long before I lose that Hatchiness.

Probably not a question that can be answered, I know, unless someone happened to grow them long enough with that specific question in mind.
 
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Hell, I may end up losing the hatchiness this season, because it all ends up being environmental.

Even if so, I reckon I’d be pretty happy finding an “Anaheim” that ended up being on the spicier end of the spectrum. I mean… I kinda love Anaheims, after all.
 
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INTLgunMonkey said:
I’m just wondering if, since the Hatch became an Anaheim, how much was genetics vs how much was environment, and how long before I lose that Hatchiness.
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I get your point and this actually can be answered pretty effectively for your purposes. Significant differences are scale and intent. I expect you'll be growing a small number of plants from a single source and giving them good individual care. When the Hatch peppers were taken to California 100 years or so ago, they were grown in great numbers (plus, as I understand it, multiple varieties of Hatch were grown) in an agricultural setting. This means a broad level of genetic diversity grown in mass where the best plants each year (as determined by the grower based most likely on likely selection factors of ability to thrive, high production and also taste) were used to seed the next generation. The intent was to allow them to combine/change into the best commercial pepper variety for California. With a big genetic pool, the specifics of the California environment, and the commercial purposes behind selection, you have strong drivers for change. Allowing them to pollinate openly and continuing to select will result in the "best" pepper, which would be an amalgamation of the genes present in the large gene pool. Given your small genetic pool and selection criteria of growing what you like, you simply won't change the base model much at all and what it does change should be all to the positive based on your selection of what you like.

Other than that, sure, you could lose some of the "hatchiness" but I don't think you'll lose anything noticeable and I think you'll be really happy with them - and for a long time. Baccatum is easy to ID because, except for some uncommon varieties, it's the only one of the domesticated varieties with a color spotted flower. With a strong bee population, you will absolutely have to take action to prevent cross pollination to keep your hatch variety true. All of annuum, chinense, baccatum, and frutescens have the potential to cross-pollinate with annuum so you'll want to search in THP for ways to protect against this to maintain true-growing seeds.

Anyhow, glad to have you on the site!
CD
 
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CaneDog said:
I get your point and this actually can be answered pretty effectively for your purposes. Significant differences are scale and intent. I expect you'll be growing a small number of plants from a single source and giving them good individual care. When the Hatch peppers were taken to California 100 years or so ago, they were grown in great numbers (plus, as I understand it, multiple varieties of Hatch were grown) in an agricultural setting. This means a broad level of genetic diversity grown in mass where the best plants each year (as determined by the grower based most likely on likely selection factors of ability to thrive, high production and also taste) were used to seed the next generation. The intent was to allow them to combine/change into the best commercial pepper variety for California. With a big genetic pool, the specifics of the California environment, and the commercial purposes behind selection, you have strong drivers for change. Allowing them to pollinate openly and continuing to select will result in the "best" pepper, which would be an amalgamation of the genes present in the large gene pool. Given your small genetic pool and selection criteria of growing what you like, you simply won't change the base model much at all and what it does change should be all to the positive based on your selection of what you like.

Other than that, sure, you could lose some of the "hatchiness" but I don't think you'll lose anything noticeable and I think you'll be really happy with them - and for a long time. Baccatum is easy to ID because, except for some uncommon varieties, it's the only one of the domesticated varieties with a color spotted flower. With a strong bee population, you will absolutely have to take action to prevent cross pollination to keep your hatch variety true. All of annuum, chinense, baccatum, and frutescens have the potential to cross-pollinate with annuum so you'll want to search in THP for ways to protect against this to maintain true-growing seeds.

Anyhow, glad to have you on the site!
CD
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Thanks. That is kinda what I was hoping to hear… minus maybe the cross-pollination risk, but I suppose that’s a problem of good circumstance.
 
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PurpPepp said:
@INTLgunMonkey maybe watch this for a few nuggets of info? The Hatch grower sure claims that the terroir matters. That’s what would claim too, if I grew in the Hatch Valley-

pbs.org

Chef Driven | The Chili Pepper Trail | Season 2 | Episode 4

Frank heads to Southern Colorado and New Mexico to learn about chilies.
pbs.org pbs.org
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I don’t doubt that there’s at least some truth to his statement, but I’m dubious of just how big a difference it makes.

Over 15 years or whatever, I’ve come to believe that the amount and timing of rain can affect the spiciness and some flavors. Where I’m at, I very rarely have to water my chilis- at least not long after transplanting. In the worst droughts I’ve seen, my chilis almost never even show any wilting without supplemental watering.

I suppose, also, the particular minerals in the soils could make some difference in two plants from the same fruit.

…maybe I gotta find some cesium and polonium to amend my soil… hmmm.
 
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INTLgunMonkey said:
…maybe I gotta find some cesium and polonium to amend my soil… hmmm.
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Gift Hr GIF by hr-fernsehen
 
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A someone who grew up on Hatch chile and grows my own:

Yes, there's a difference, and you'll likely be able to tell, but they're still great peppers. To my taste, Hatch-grown tends earthier and deeper, vs. brighter and grassy for the non-Hatch ones (especially NC grown). Roasting gets them closer in flavor.

INTLgunMonkey said:
…maybe I gotta find some cesium and polonium to amend my soil… hmmm.
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I see I'm not the only one who thought that!
I'm still waiting on approval from the Nuclear Regulatory Commission for my shipment - I'll let you know how it goes :)
 
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HellfireFarm said:
An amusing aside regarding SFRB - The max allowed weight of 70lb for SFRB shipping is how much a brick of osmium sized to fit the box would weigh. Osmium is the heaviest/densest known substance, so it is literally impossible to pack a SFRB over weight.

(Although last time I looked I didn't see a limit - did they remove it?)
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growyourown said:
now i know how i will ship my osmium from now on
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i remembered this convo from another thread, and oddly enough it was you! lol
 
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HellfireFarm said:
A someone who grew up on Hatch chile and grows my own:

Yes, there's a difference, and you'll likely be able to tell, but they're still great peppers. To my taste, Hatch-grown tends earthier and deeper, vs. brighter and grassy for the non-Hatch ones (especially NC grown). Roasting gets them closer in flavor.
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I’m also in NC. Glad to hear you’ve had luck with them here (though we’re a pretty diverse state, climate-wise).

Are you saving seeds over, or sourcing seed every year?
 
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HellfireFarm said:
I grow a prety wide variety and it's for commercial use, so I get fresh (isolated) seeds every year.
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Nice. As a fellow Hatch fan, I may ping you after I’ve had a chance to eat these, for advice on which cultivars I should be buying. I looked up your farm, and we’re only about 80 miles apart, so what works well for you should be at least pretty close for me as well.
 
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