hydroponic Hydroponics Nutrients (Home Brewing)

FrLarry

FrLarry

i have not been very successful in growing hydroponic hot peppers for the past year. this was due to nonexistence of pre-mixed hydro nutrients in the Philippines. since we have vast space of land for agriculture, hydroponics just would not flourish. all ferts sold are for soil culture. however, we have unlimited supplies of chemical compounds for home brewing. endlessly searching for the right mix is very frustrating, npk ratio, ec, ppm etc. there are as many formulas as there are hydro growers. i am after the correct npk ratio of nutrients exclusively for peppers (if there is):oops:. i am posting two formulas i got from other hot pepper forums with slight modifications considering the compounds available nearest home. Please comment & recommend according to your experience and knowledge. The seeds i mail ordered from the US and AUS are ready to sprout. i am growing jolokias and habs. Philipperv is in the philippines but not into hydro. and please note, i am not a chemist i got the adjustments from Nutron2000 a nutrient formulation software (it has recommended mix for peppers but is extremely different from all others).

(Formula 1)
into 100 liters of water to be mixed in parts:

Part A
Calcium Nitrate 94g
Potassium Nitrate 33g
Iron (EDTA) 4.1g

Part B
Potassium Nitrate 33g
MonoPotassium Phospate 26g
Magnesium Sulfate (Epsom) 43g
Manganese Sulfate .4g
Zinc Sulfate .26g
Boric Acid .33g
Copper Sulfate 4.44g
Ammonium Molybdate .2g

This gives

N - 233 ppm
P - 54 ppm
K - 326 ppm
Mg - 42 ppm
Ca - 188 ppm
S - 55 ppm

and the micro nutrients

Fe - 4 ppm
Mn - .98 ppm
Zn - .59 ppm
B - .59 ppm
Cu - 9.99 ppm
Mo - .978 ppm
============================================
(Formula 2 almost mimics CHILI FOCUS ratio -Ca)
into 100 liters of water to be mixed in parts:

Part A
Calcium Nitrate 46g
Potassium Nitrate 11g
Iron (EDTA) 4.1g

Part B
Potassium Nitrate 11g
MonoPotassium Phospate 23g
Magnesium Sulfate (Epsom) 56g
Manganese Sulfate .4g
Zinc Sulfate .26g
Boric Acid .33g
Copper Sulfate 4.44g
Ammonium Molybdate .2g

This gives

N - 98 ppm
P - 48 ppm
K - 180 ppm
Mg - 55 ppm
Ca - 91 ppm
S - 91 ppm

and the micro nutrients

Fe - 4 ppm
Mn - .98 ppm
Zn - .59 ppm
B - .59 ppm
Cu - 9.99 ppm
Mo - .978 ppm

+ Humic Acid

======================================
please tell me which is which, i am inclined to use formula #1. Am i on the right path or am i dreaming? thanks for bearing with my long post.
 
I've calculated just yesterday almost the same but without KNO3:

Here's to 10 liters:

Ca(NO3)2*4(H2O) 12g
MgSO4*7(H2O) 4,8g
K2SO4 3,6g
KH2PO4 2,3g
I took microelements from a special potion Pokon Leaf regenerator. It's a mix of helated micros.
Here I have (in PPMs):
Ca 200
N 140
P 50
K 225
Mg 47
 
Hi bricks,
bricks1962 said:
i have not been very successful in growing hydroponic hot peppers for the past year. this was due to nonexistence of pre-mixed hydro nutrients in the Philippines. since we have vast space of land for agriculture, hydroponics just would not flourish. all ferts sold are for soil culture. however, we have unlimited supplies of chemical compounds for home brewing. endlessly searching for the right mix is very frustrating, npk ratio, ec, ppm etc. there are as many formulas as there are hydro growers.
Click to expand...

About the same situation here in Thailand, although there are many hydroponic farms all over the country. But they focus or limit on lettuce, cucumber and such. When I have started I've found a single premix, which probably is based on a leafy vegetable formula, that wasn't suitable for anything else. No info at all about this product, not even about rough NPK.

So, about 2 years ago, I've started making my own nutrients (for chili peppers, tomatoes and more) and have quite a bit experience in this field. But you are right about the difficulty to lay hand on formulas. There are only a few about chili peppers and they are very different from each other. As well concerning their composition, as well as for the total PPM (concentration), which ranges from 600 up to 1800 PPM.

About your formula 1: I've checked the calculus and it is more or less correct (differs a few PPM from my spreadsheet only)

I wouldn't say it's bad or completely wrong. Though, it totals 900 PPM which is way too high for my understanding. Also 233 PPM of Nitrogen seems high to me, or in other words I keep it lower. Same for 326 PPM of Potassium, which I'd consider the max - you could cut down on that too.

Magnesium should be 50 or even 55 PPM, and calcium would be sufficient with 170-180, especially if you have high calcium content in your tap- or well water. If you lower the N-content by cutting down on calcium nitrate, Ca content will drop (automatically) as well.

What about

N=195 PPM
P-55 PPM
K-240 PPM
Ca = 170-180
Mg-50 PPM
S-75 PPM

Total PPM = 785 (not considering trace elements (+5) and initial EC of tap water)

An alternative formula for drop and waste, I grabbed from a grower in the carribians which is even lower in N, but in fact for bell peppers who are actually supposed to need some more Nitrogen (and higher concentration):

N= 160
P = 50
K = 200
Ca = 190
Mg = 48
S = 65
(total 713 PPM)

Formula 2 you mentioned (by curtesty of Chili Focus)
This formula is clearly to week to be used as a main hydroponic growing formula for chili peppers, it might be usefull as a formula for seedlings, though.

Important: the trace elements you used are not classic values, but rather fancy - you should review them!

So much about a basic (or even good) formula to start with. There is much to say though, about the type of pepper, the PH, setup etc. Not all pepper species grow well in tropical climate (regional S.E.A climate) Not any setup is best or appropriate for peppers. Sun exposure, season (dry, rainy) matters as well. My main problem in the past has always been pests, fungal infections, thrips, stem rot and even massive fruit fly damage (even with very hot species). All of these have much compromised my research and quest for a perfect formula!

Peppers are NOT easy to grow hydroponically in tropical climates. They need well monitored PH, not too high nutrient temperature and the right concentration in nutrients. The media (rockwool), coco, clay pebbles, or whatever) you'll use, matters as well. Good drain (of most media) is vital for peppers.

Any more questions, do not hesitate!

Cheers,

Luca
 
Luca,
thanks, i'll come up with a formula considering what you suggested and post it here, soon.
bricks
 
Hi again!
bricks1962 said:
Luca,
thanks, i'll come up with a formula considering what you suggested and post it here, soon.
bricks
Click to expand...

OK, go ahaed, - but you should know that I (also) used a small percentage of Potassium Sulphate to achieve that shown NPK-formula (considering calcium and sulfur as well).

But try anyway, we can compare results later - as I have the recipe already handy. I didn't want to rush things ;)
 
Luca,

I made some adjustments and here's what i got.

(New Formula)
into 100 liters of water to be mixed in parts:

Part A
Calcium Nitrate 88g
Potassium Nitrate 22g

Part B
Potassium Nitrate 22g
MonoPotassium Phospate 26g
Magnesium Sulfate (Epsom) 54g

This gives

N - 195 ppm
P - 55 ppm
K - 241 ppm
Mg - 53 ppm
Ca - 177 ppm
S - 70 ppm

i did not include the trace's this time until you give me suggestions on proper ppm for each. i have ammonium molybdate, boric acid, manganese sulfate, iron (Edta), zinc sulfate and copper sulfate any suggestion?

that's the nearest i can get to your suggested mix, what do you think?
 
Hi again,
bricks1962 said:
This gives

N - 195 ppm
P - 55 ppm
K - 241 ppm
Mg - 53 ppm
Ca - 177 ppm
S - 70 ppm

i did not include the trace's this time until you give me suggestions on proper ppm for each. i have ammonium molybdate, boric acid, manganese sulfate, iron (Edta), zinc sulfate and copper sulfate any suggestion?

that's the nearest i can get to your suggested mix, what do you think?
Click to expand...

Looks good to me! I didn't check with my calculator (yet) but the software you use will give you
similar results anyway. Mine has slightly different data (purity of raw materials and content of Elements "millimoli" in some raw materials sometimes differs), but that's nothing to worry about.

The higher sulfur content in my formula is due to the fact that I used Potassium Sulphate. If you don't have it, your calculus cannot match mine. If you can get some, it's useful in case your PH tends to raise. It releases some small quantity of Sulfuric acid over time which helps stabilize the PH. If your Ph tends to fall it's no good and no go though.

Tomorrow I'll post trace element chart and formula, and some other data.

We may also work out a starting formula for your "new born", which should be around 400 PPM total. Could you tell me what media you use for your seedlings and what media you will transplant (what media you use with your hydroponic set up)? And have you some idea about hard/softness of the water you'll use? Thanks and cheers !
Luca
 
all shops are closed here in manila today and tomrw, the memorial of the former president. anyway, i am using soil less media for the seedlings, coco fiber, perlite and carbonized rice hull, all in abundance here. will use coco fiber when i transfer into the hydro system. saved rain water, of course, tap water here is highly chlorinated, you are having your share of the tropical climate there i believe, "water water everywhere..?" almost all tropical cyclones from here go there thru south china sea.

i have pottasium sulfate but it won't count at the final formula, i inserted, it won't appear in the final print, software stubborn. will try harder, we are new to each other.

will wait for the suggested ppm for trace elements/minerals.

BTW, did you get the ratio from soil or hydroponic growers, are we experimenting (am very willing to) or has been proven to work for hot peppers?

as i watch tens of thousands march to the metropolitan cathedral in manila for the memorial, i now put my seeds in the soil to rest & to live again...

thanks for your time.

bricks
 
First of all, here is the chart of micronutrients (you are probaly waitin' for):

micro.gif


The source of this micronutrient composition: GROWTH OF TABASCO PEPPER (CAPSICUM FRUTESCENS) IN HYDROPONIC CULTURE by Manuel Estuardo Aldana Ing. Agrónomo, Escuela Agrícola Panamericana, El Zamorano, 1998 August, 2005

Here's the final formula. I have cut down 5PPM on Magnesium, otherwise the S-content would have been incorrect. You still have the option to use 50 PPM of Magnesium, but end up with 81 PPM of sulfur (which is still acceptable as toxicity only starts around 280-300). As you use rain water, I'd even suggest 50 PPM (or even 55) because, compared to some tap water, rainwater doesn't contain any Mg.

formula.jpg


The shown formula is now a synthesis from what I have collected on scientific research, various grower information and what I have tested myself as well. My former formula contained 73 PPM of K, and somewhat less Nitrogen, but I have switched back to classical 50-55 PPM again and raised N slightly. This formula has nothing fancy and you should play safe here!

Some formula suggest much higher N-content, others keep it as low as 160-170. I've even seen 300 PPM of N - but do not recommend it at all.

During, well actually with upcoming flowering stage you might modify the formula as follows: cut down N to 160-170, raise P to 65-75 and raise K to 280-300. This is to prevent excessive vegetative growth and assure good supply with P and K for flowers to build up. Some formula suggest "hyper-Phosphorus content" for flowering stage, but I doubt this strategy for hot peppers. This kind of logic might be some kind of heritage from hemp grower's experiences, - who knows...

But always keep in mind that plant uptake mostly depends on general conditions, as humidity and oxigenation of roots, climate and temperatures, general health due to exposure vs. protection against pest, insects and fungus, right exposure to (sun)light and even CO2 content of the surrounding atmosphere. Most important is to keep the PH of your solution around 6 (best is between 5.9-6.2!

Here is an example of what I have got trough this formula(s) with Capsicum Chinense - here a variety called Coraçao de Galinha from Brasil (setup is protected from direct sunlight). PS: I took it out of my setup to shoot the picture.

hygrow01.jpg
 
luc,
got them. i was able to include also the potassium sulfate. am ready to try this after the seeds have sprouted.
your flowering/fruiting formula resembles chili focus i got it at the ratio of 2.3-1-4.2 (N-P-K).
i have a blue lab ec meter and an oakton PhTester30 meter, the plants will be protected from direct sunlight except 9am to 11am (we have an equal hour of light vs darkness 12/12 hours there is no need for expensive bulbs. it was really the nutrient formulation that prevented success in my previous attempts.
pests is easily controlled by soapy water sprayed all over, very effective. we have laundry soap product made from coconut oil.
will update you on the progress...
bricks
 
kilobit said:
Im not really sure how it works, but most "pro" nutrients have chelatted (sp?) their minerals.

Im not sure how you can do this with your own home brew, but it seems important for actual effectiveness of a couple of minerals.
Click to expand...

You don't worry kilobit, we don't do any pioneer work in unexplored territory here, nor use any inadequate or less appropriate substances. There has been extensive research and testing since the beginning of the last century (even earlier), about the raw materials as well as about the basic formulas that are used for various plants. Commercial products are mainly (if not totally) based on this research, and so is my work. Although there has only been little research on more specific plants, and even fewer is public or easily (freely) accessible.

As for chelates, or chelated minerals used in a nutrient solution, there is only Fe (Iron) that actually needs to be used in chelated (protected) form. To be water soluble, readily available, and also to be chemically stable until absorption by plants. The main reason for a chelated component is to protect it from chemical reaction, (keep it elemental and pure if you like) until it gets absorbed by the plant's roots. If you have a closer look at the above formula, you can see that in this recipe we do use EDTA chelated Iron for that very reason. To add other and more micro nutrients in a chelated form to a nutrient solution is actually no such good idea. Because chelates are produced naturally as well. And those naturally produced chelates will (can) not bind to anything (because in a NS there is anything they might find ore use) - and hence will not be absorbed by plants, they become useless and eventually unwanted polluants.

In fact, most (if not all) raw materials that are shown and used here, are exactly the same as those used by industrial manufacturers or even most "nutrient micro breweries". Raw materials delivering the macro nutrients as well as those containing the necessary micro nutrients. The very same ingredients are used by professional (industrial) growers and researchers in the field. Actually because there is not much choice and alternatives for raw materials that are available in the adequate grade (so called fertilizer grade) and hence affordable for industrial or commercial use.

Well, there are more and more products with more or less fancy additives showing up lately at the specialized marked. But I suspect most of them to actually be part of a response to a huge (and actually over rated) customer demand for specialties,- rather than a real necessity for plant nutrition. The actual effectiveness and real need of most of these additives and enhancers out there, are not backed up by (sufficient) scientific research nor proof anyway.

Although, if one thinks that 0.25% of humic acid (for instance) is a good thing to add to his/a nutrient, and has at least some scientific backup or any other objective evidence for this, why not add- and test it!? If on the other hand there is no such plausible backup for the use of an additive or substance at all, - I do not see any reason nor sense in using it. Nutrient development is an exact science and should not to be confused with happy hour cocktail mixing, right? ;)

Btw: the prefix "Pro" that goes with some commercial nutrient doesn't mean anything to me, as long as I do not know the exact ingredients and the composition of the product.

Hint: never confuse conventional fertilizer principles of soil culture, with the ones of it's soil-less pendant. Nor confuse or mix up any other commonly accepted knowledge of both very distinctive fields! It's a very common and frequent source of erroneous thinking, followed by actually false claims and argumentation. :cool:
 
luca,
the humic acid i bought is like black ink, i poured 2 teaspoonfuls into 5 liters h20 and gave my 3 bonsais (guava) a drink, i hope they like it. i am testing the humic acid, 100 mL, 250 pesos, about 5 US$, before i actually pour some into my nutrients.
bricks
 
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