soil I need help to make a final soil decision...

[Scuba_Steve]

Sorry, I have made a bunch of soil posts, and keep changing my mind or having people influence me to change my mind. I have bought a bunch of stuff and hope I'm not wasting my money flip flopping back and forth. I need to make a final decision and stick with it. Hopefully what I have can be mostly used.

To start I was going to use promix but decided I can't afford to buy it online and it's even more expensive at the local hydro store. So that is out.

Here is what I need to fill. I assume these all require a slightly different mix.

1 seedling tray. I was using jiffy but am not happy with it.

70ish solos.

10-14 wally bags. I was going to use 5-1-1 but was just told by my hydro shop that this sounded like a horrible mix due to nothing that provides nutrients.

25cft inside of my raised beds. I was going to use Mel's mix. 1 part sphagmus moss, 1 part vermiculite, 1 part mixture of various composts. I was going to add a little sand as well. The hydro shop insisted I trade some moss for coconut coir, and use some perlite as well.

I can buy a little more stuff if necessary, but I'm running out of money. Also let me know where to add lime if needed.

Here is what I have:
4cft vermiculite
4cft perlite
9cft pine fines
8cft sphagmus peat moss
55g 5g coconut coir
6cft humus compost
4cft manure compost
6cft mushroom compost
4cft chicken compost

Please let me know what you would do if you were in my shoes, and specifically what to put where...

This will be my last soil post

 

[nzchili]

Hmmmm IMO it would seem you have made this more complicated then it needs to be..
I would first mix all the composts together and call it "magic compost" or something..to simplify things.
 
I would then mix up a batch of maybe 1:1:1:2 with pine bark fines, peat moss, perlite &  your "magic compost" and see how it looks & feels. I would then adjust more or less of something as required to get the consistency/drainage i want.
 
To make it drain better you can remove peat moss, add more pine bark, or add more perlite.
To make it hold more water, or take longer to dry out you can add more peat or vermiculite.
 
so to keep it simple -  make sure you have enough nutrient giving organic materials (compost), then add/remove the other things to get the consistency of soil you want.
 
I personally would top it all off with some dolomite lime, trace elements and little bit of granular slow release ferts in the mix.

 

[Pepper Ridge Farm]

The last step is you need to deal with the pH of the sphagnum peat moss and add some dolomitic limestone to help keep the pH in check.  I would still use some seed starting mix and not use this mix in your seed tray, would be fine for solo cups up.  Really like your saltwater corals wish I still had my tank set up, had one set up for almost 17 years just needed a break.  Had more of a FOWLR setup but always loved the anemone and clown fish symbiotic relationship in a tank.  I also really enjoyed having Moray Eels just hated that they always seem to find an escape.

 

[Scuba_Steve]

Deceiving hydro store asshole...
 
Told me to throw this big brick of coconut coir into the bathtub, fill with water, and 4 hours later I would have 55g of uncompressed coir...
 
Well I used 3 rubbermaids.  My wife would've killed me if she came home and found coco coir filling the bathtub.  I dont even have a wally bag full...  So about 5 gallons...
 
I wouldn't have bothered buying this for that small quantity.  Another waste of money.

 

[twilliams386]

Deceiving hydro store asshole...
 
Told me to throw this big brick of coconut coir into the bathtub, fill with water, and 4 hours later I would have 55g of uncompressed coir...
 
Well I used 3 rubbermaids.  My wife would've killed me if she came home and found coco coir filling the bathtub.  I dont even have a wally bag full...  So about 5 gallons...
 
I wouldn't have bothered buying this for that small quantity.  Another waste of money.

I try to sift through what the hydro shop tells me. Take a little of it, research it, then take out the bs.

Yeah you would have 55g of uncompressed coir because your bathtub would be full of it. Scoop it all up, let it drain, not 55 gallons anymore.

For the seedlings I would just go with the peat, perlite and coir. Keep it light and fluffy for the roots to expand. The wally bags I would almost treat the same as raised beds. Do a sort of Mel's mix. But like nzchill said, experiment and play with it. Make up a trial mix, water it good, see how well it drains, then adjust. You can always add nutrients, but when you have drainage issues it's hard to fix once it's done.

On your raised beds. Did you till soil beneath them? If not, is it harder clay soil or something that's lighter and will accept water easily? If it's clay and you didn't till, I would think you should keep vermiculite levels low.

Take all this with a grain of salt, I'm still really new and am just regurgitating my interpretation of what I've learned here.

 

[Scuba_Steve]

I guess this is one of those situations where I guess I am just going to go with my gut instinct.  I decided the hell with it.  I am going to stick to my original plan. (Which had quite a bit of research backing it btw)
 
Wally bags 4-1-1  1 tbsp dolomitic lime, 1 tbsp slow release kelp fertilizer, 1/2 tbsp bone meal per gallon of soil
Raised beds  Mels mix 1-1-1  1 tbsp dolomitic lime, 1 tbsp slow release kelp fertilizer, 1/2 tbsp bone meal per gallon of soil
 

Hmmmm IMO it would seem you have made this more complicated then it needs to be..

I tend to do this often.
 

Really like your saltwater corals wish I still had my tank set up, had one set up for almost 17 years just needed a break.  Had more of a FOWLR setup but always loved the anemone and clown fish symbiotic relationship in a tank.  I also really enjoyed having Moray Eels just hated that they always seem to find an escape.

Thank you.  No better time than now to get rolling again though!  Eurobracing does wonders for eels btw.  They like to swim up the glass to get out.  That 2" lip is plenty to keep them in.
 

For the seedlings I would just go with the peat, perlite and coir. Keep it light and fluffy for the roots to expand.

On your raised beds. Did you till soil beneath them?

Take all this with a grain of salt, I'm still really new and am just regurgitating my interpretation of what I've learned here.

Sounds good for the seedlings.  I wonder if I still need to lime to balance out the peat.  I would assume yes.
 
No tilling.  In fact I literally set them on top of live grass.  I do plan on having a thin layer of pea pebble at the bottom to assist with drainage though.
 
I'm in the same boat.  I try to be helpful when I can, but most of it is parroting.  I usually let people know this though much like you just did.

 

[twilliams386]

 
Sounds good for the seedlings.  I wonder if I still need to lime to balance out the peat.  I would assume yes.
 
No tilling.  In fact I literally set them on top of live grass.  I do plan on having a thin layer of pea pebble at the bottom to assist with drainage though.
 
I'm in the same boat.  I try to be helpful when I can, but most of it is parroting.  I usually let people know this though much like you just did.

Idk about pebbles, from what I've read it only raises the water table unless you top dress with it to avoid compaction from rain. I could definitely be wrong, but I would skip the pebbles. If you have decent drainage in your mix and then poor drainage underneath it, why take the poor drainage and move it up an inch?
Like I said, could be wrong, hopefully someone will correct me if I am.

 

[John1234]

Perched water table is the term, but you are correct.
 
So, he will sell Pro-mix and coir but doesn't see the value in 5-1-1? That doesn't even make sense, except that two are expensive pre-packaged products that he sells. All three basically lack nutrients.
 
Did he happen to mention you should flush the shit out of those blocks? re: salt residues. I pay for bagged, but I've heard crazy high EC numbers coming from slurry/run-off tests of hydrated blocks. Rubbermaids are pretty standard, trash cans work as well, for hydrating and flushing, the tub was a terrible idea. Probably had to stop himself from mentioning how useful the toilet is for getting rid of fan leaves..
 
You've got some pretty good advice, I just felt the need to reply... some hydrostore owners are complete tools. This one's some real special sauce. Walk in, grab what you came for, smile when he talks and directs you to the most expensive line of products in the store, then pay and leave with only what you came for

 

[Pfeffer]

I would make a mix with

20% dirt
30% spaghum (shredded)
40% compost (mixed)
10% perlite

I dislike pine and coir myself, but that's just me.

You have plenty so just mix up some small batches and germ some bell peppers (they grow faster) and try 4 or 5 mixes that best suit your on hand quantities.

Than decide which ones have the best results and fit your enviroment (droughts, Rain, indoors etc). The drainage is your Main concern.

 

[WichitaChief]

KISS. Keep it simple silly. Ask 50 people on here what is the right soils and get 50 answers. Like has been said, experiment with different ones and find what works for you. I use mixes as I don't have the time or patience to reinvent the wheel. I like the Jiffy seed starting mix mixed with Fertilome to get a blend that seems to do me good. Either one has worked in the past but experience has shown me the blend moistens, retains moisture, and dries to my liking. I use Fox Farm Ocean Forrest in my 3 1/2" square pots that the seedling go into after starting. I mix the FF OF with a standard mix Fertilome potting soil to once again get the traits that work for me. I discovered that Menard's carries ProMix potting soil (no, not the HP) for $13 a 4 cu ft bag.  So I'm playing around with it. I'll mix it with my FF OF this year. Plus using the Fertilome (or ProMix) with the Frog helps stretch the quantity and dilute the price per pot down. I like the other "stuff" that Happy Frog contains: earthworm castings, bat guano, and sea-going fish and crab meal. Outdoors in a raised bed you will want something which holds more moisture than an indoor mix for a seedling cup/pot set-up. I've used generic sandy loam garden soil with various mixes added to it. I have used Happy Frog potting soil and soil conditioner with good results. I tried to use it indoors and the pots never seemed to dry out! Outdoors? It was good. I use what I use due to it's what is available around here from where i chose to shop and it gets me the results I can depend on. Is there better? Probably so. Will it cost more in time or money? Possibly. Trial and error! Enjoy!!