Importance of Shelf Stable for 1 lb Batch??

[aceec]

Hi everyone,
 
I just finished making my first hot sauce.  I did not heat my hot sauce after fermentation nor did I have a PH meter at the time so no idea what PH I ended up with. I've already put the hot sauce into some plastic condiment jars that were clean but not sanitized and gave them out to friends. I've requested everyone keep them in the fridge when not being used. Am I putting anyone at risk?
 
I more or less based it off of this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uL8UJPQ_zoU but with a lot of additions and edits.
 
Sauce is delicious BTW and that white Modena vinegar gives it a nice subtle sweetness.
 
The below fermented for 1 week
1 lb Habaneros
1/2 Bell Pepper
4 cloves garlic
 
Then blended with the below. All measurements are approximate.
Half Red Onion
6 Cloves Roasted Garlic and the Olive Oil it was roasted in
3 Roasted Tomatoes
1/4 Cup White Vinegar
1/4 Cup White Modena Vinegar
1/4 Cup Rice Vinegar
1/4 Cup Brine
Juice of 1 Lime
Salt to Taste
 

 

[Downriver]

... Am I putting anyone at risk?

 
Yes.

 

[sirex]

1. I did not heat my hot sauce after fermentation nor did I have a PH meter at the time so no idea what PH I ended up with.
 
2.I've already put the hot sauce into some plastic condiment jars that were clean but not sanitized and gave them out to friends. 
 
3.The below fermented for 1 week
 
 
  Then blended with the below. 
 
 

1. You didn't stop the fermentation. Which in and of itself isnt NECESSARILY a bad thing but in this case it COULD be. I always pasteurize to stop the ferment though.
 
2 .You didn't put it into a sterile vessel thereby inviting contamination.
 
3. Anytime you add more product to an already started ferment it will add sugars which will add to the fermentation process. In your case the addition of a cup of vinegar might stop it.
 
HOWEVER
 
You've added garlic and oil which can be tricky with food safety if not properly processed. Which you did not do.
 
So essentially, yes. You've most definitely put people at risk.

 

[aceec]

Yikes! I just got a pH meter delivered from Amazon and have some distilled water to calibrate it arriving with our grocery delivery this evening. If the pH is under 4 how much safer does that make the sauce? If I have people boil the hot sauce that I gave them will that help at this point or is it too late?
 
After watching through a handful of the more hot sauce making videos on Youtube. Some with millions of views I'm a bit surprised that none of them mention pH, boiling to stop the ferment or sanitizing the jars. Seems pretty reckless. The Bon Apetit video even says not to blend it too high if you have a Vitamix or it will get hot and kill the good bacteria.

 

[aceec]

OK so I got my pH meter and some distilled water to make sure it is properly calibrated and it looks like my hot sauce has a pH of 3.3. I've been reading around on this forum and elsewhere and in general it seems that acidity would normally keep any bad bacteria from forming. Especially if it's kept refrigerated. Am I off point here? 
 
HOWEVER, I did add some olive oil and I see that can increase the risk of botulism. I couldn't find too much information about oil in fermented hot sauce. I see it can cause botulism but I also see recipes all over the internet that do use it. I think I'm going to have everyone toss these bottles but would love to try and recreate this recipe without using the olive oil.

 

[sirex]

Most videos are presented to the preparer as the end user aka an at home meal either by yourself or with friends with the intention of almost immediate consumption. This presents much less risk in the realm of food poisoning etc .
 
It's a different thing entirely to make a sauce with the intention of giving it away. That would put it on the level of needing to put out a quality professional product.  Even those we call friends can be devious when times like these arise. 
 
I haven't seen The Bon Apetite video but if it says to blend but not too much as it could kill good  bacteria they probably either A.) Meant the initial blend of the mash prior to fermenting or B.) Have no fucking clue as to what the hell they are talking about. I'm inclined to go with option B. 
 
This forum is a wealth of great information and I would definitely advise perusing a lot of the older stuff.
 
I've made similar mistakes in my journey as a sauce maker. It's my goal not to repeat them though.

 

[aceec]

Thanks for all the info Sirex. I tossed out these hot sauces and I'll take some more precautions with my current batch I'm fermenting.
 
The videos I've mentioned all used around a pound of peppers so I'd be impressed if they were planning on eating all of the sauce immediately. The Bon Apetit video was filmed prior to Christmas and specifically mentions he'll be giving them as gifts. Hopefully he didn't get any one sick.
 
I believe what the Bon Apetit video meant was that by boiling the mash after fermentation you are killing the Lactobacillus (good bacteria) that is still present and active in the hot sauce. They were considering this continued fermentation as a way for the flavor to continue to improve.
 
It always helps me to understand the underlying concepts behind an idea. The scenario I'm having some trouble finding a consistent answer is as follows. I make a fermented hot sauce and do not boil the sauce afterwards but put it in sterilized jars. The pH of the sauce is below 4. Will the acidity and Lactobacillus be able to keep bad bacteria at away and for how long? Will the continued fermentation potentially raise the pH levels?  If I add more ingredients afterwards like carrots or garlic how will this affect the safety of my sauce?
 
I really appreciate everyone's help here as I dive into the hot sauce world!! 

 

[Fusili_Jerry]

 
 
It always helps me to understand the underlying concepts behind an idea. The scenario I'm having some trouble finding a consistent answer is as follows. I make a fermented hot sauce and do not boil the sauce afterwards but put it in sterilized jars. The pH of the sauce is below 4. Will the acidity and Lactobacillus be able to keep bad bacteria at away and for how long? Will the continued fermentation potentially raise the pH levels?  If I add more ingredients afterwards like carrots or garlic how will this affect the safety of my sauce?
 
I really appreciate everyone's help here as I dive into the hot sauce world!! 

 
This is what I'm trying to find as well. A way to ferment my mash, not boil it, and keep the good bacteria alive! Is this possible? Maybe adding a % of vinegar but I am not an expert (yet)

 

[sirex]

 
It always helps me to understand the underlying concepts behind an idea. The scenario I'm having some trouble finding a consistent answer is as follows. I make a fermented hot sauce and do not boil the sauce afterwards but put it in sterilized jars. The pH of the sauce is below 4. Will the acidity and Lactobacillus be able to keep bad bacteria at away and for how long? Will the continued fermentation potentially raise the pH levels?  If I add more ingredients afterwards like carrots or garlic how will this affect the safety of my sauce?
 
 

 
Yes the pHbeing below 4 will keep the nasties at bay. The continued fermentation will continue to lower the pH making the sauce more acidic, making an increasingly hostile environment for the nasties (a good thing).
 
The problem arises that the continued fermentation in a closed vessel increases pressure due to a rise in CO2 levels which are produced during the fermentation process. A rise in pressure in a closed container creates a possible pressure bomb depending on how much sugar is left in the ferment. The fermentation process will stop when all sugar is exhausted. But what happens when you give that bottle to someone who doesnt use it very often? It could explode. It could not. I don't want to take that chance though.
 
Many people add ingredients after the ferment. Like fruits and spices. The fermentation process strips those things of a lot of flavor so many add that after the active ferment. It's then on you to do your due dilligence and check the pH because anything added after other than an acid is going to raise the pH. By how much? That all depends on what you've added and how much.

 

[SmokenFire]

 
This is what I'm trying to find as well. A way to ferment my mash, not boil it, and keep the good bacteria alive! Is this possible? Maybe adding a % of vinegar but I am not an expert (yet)

Jerry -
 
It's entirely possible to ferment your mash and keep the good bacteria alive.  Let your ferment run its course (usually 30-90 days) and then refrigerate it.  Vinegar can slow fermentation, but unless its a high blend ratio (think tobasco) it will not stop fermentation completely.

 

[aceec]

 
Yes the pHbeing below 4 will keep the nasties at bay. The continued fermentation will continue to lower the pH making the sauce more acidic, making an increasingly hostile environment for the nasties (a good thing).

 
Appreciate your continued input Sirex. So for my hot sauce since once everything was added and blended together and my pH was under 4 was I putting people more at risk because...
 
A. I added olive oil and garlic which can cause problems
B. I cleaned but did not sterilize my containers.
c. Something else or maybe both of these things.
 
I'm two weeks in to my second ferment and hope to make a second batch this weekend and don't want to fuck this one up too.
 
Thanks!!!

 

[sirex]

A.The addition of oil and garlic while not being properly pasteurized/boiled is what would be worrisome to me if I were making the sauce. 
B.Cleaning, while good for at home personal use, is putting people at risk vs sanitizing.