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Is there any alternative to limestone
- Thread starter adnewr
- Start date
Brain Strain Pepper Head
Banned
The most aggressive way to lower soil pH is to apply pure sulfur or flowers of sulfur. You should follow your soil test's recommendations, but in general, if you are applying sulfur to an area that does not currently have any plants growing in it, such as a new garden bed, you can apply it at a higher rate than in areas with growing plants. You can also add organic matter, such as compost or composted manure, to your soil annually and mulch with acidic organic mulches, such as pine needles. Adding organic matter slowly lowers your pH over time, while increasing microbial life and improving the structure of your soil.
When using sulfur for changing soil pH, be aware that the acidifying effect depends on soil bacteria (thiobacillius), which oxidize the sulfur and release dilute sulfuric acid into the soil over a period of weeks to months.
Because the acidifying effect of sulfur depends on soil bacteria:
The sulfur must be dispersed through the soil to be in contact with these bacteria. Make sure you mix the sulfur thoroughly into the soil. Otherwise, there will be strongly acidic areas around blobs of sulfur, and no effect elsewhere in the soil.
Sulfur only works during the summer, when the soil is warm and bacterial activity is at its highest.
Sulfur is not a quick-fix for changing soil pH. After application there is a delay of several weeks to several months before soil bacteria break down the sulfur to acidify the soil.
Elemental sulfur is acceptable as an organic soil amendment for changing soil pH under National Organic Program (NOP) guidelines.
When using elemental sulphur for changing soil pH, it's best to divide the amount to be applied to achieve the desired drop into 2 or 3 applications over the entire season, instead of a single application. Applications should be 6-8 weeks apart.
NOTE: Application amounts in the table below apply to loam soil. 2.4 lbs of elemental sulphur (per 100 square feet) will drop loam soil pH by 1 point.
- See more at: http://www.grow-it-organically.com/changing-soil-ph.html#sthash.urPMuqw5.dpuf
When using sulfur for changing soil pH, be aware that the acidifying effect depends on soil bacteria (thiobacillius), which oxidize the sulfur and release dilute sulfuric acid into the soil over a period of weeks to months.
Because the acidifying effect of sulfur depends on soil bacteria:
The sulfur must be dispersed through the soil to be in contact with these bacteria. Make sure you mix the sulfur thoroughly into the soil. Otherwise, there will be strongly acidic areas around blobs of sulfur, and no effect elsewhere in the soil.
Sulfur only works during the summer, when the soil is warm and bacterial activity is at its highest.
Sulfur is not a quick-fix for changing soil pH. After application there is a delay of several weeks to several months before soil bacteria break down the sulfur to acidify the soil.
Elemental sulfur is acceptable as an organic soil amendment for changing soil pH under National Organic Program (NOP) guidelines.
When using elemental sulphur for changing soil pH, it's best to divide the amount to be applied to achieve the desired drop into 2 or 3 applications over the entire season, instead of a single application. Applications should be 6-8 weeks apart.
NOTE: Application amounts in the table below apply to loam soil. 2.4 lbs of elemental sulphur (per 100 square feet) will drop loam soil pH by 1 point.
- For Clay Soil, INCREASE amounts by half (50%).
- For Sandy Soil DECREASE amounts by one-third (33%).
Pounds of Elemental Sulfur Needed for Reducing Soil pH
(100 square feet of Soil 6” Deep, LOAM soil)
(100 square feet of Soil 6” Deep, LOAM soil)
Present Soil pH
To pH 6.5
To pH 6.0
To pH 5.5
To pH 5.0
To pH 4.5
8.0
3.6 lbs
4.8 lbs
6.0 lbs
7.2 lbs
8.4 lbs
7.5
2.4 lbs
3.6 lbs
4.8 lbs
6.0 lbs
7.2 lbs
7.0
1.2 lbs
2.4 lbs
3.6 lbs
4.8 lbs
6.0 lbs
6.5
---
1.2 lbs
2.4 lbs
3.6 lbs
4.8 lbs
6.0
---
---
1.2 lbs
2.4 lbs
3.6 lbs
- See more at: http://www.grow-it-organically.com/changing-soil-ph.html#sthash.urPMuqw5.dpuf
Oyster shell meal and crab meal both do the same thing although they are more expensive.adnewr said:
If you mixed a balanced soil and used organic fertilizers then people telling you about pH would be a non-issue as nature does not care what your pH meter says!
adnewr said:
You are assuming something not in evidence. That peat moss can lower soil pH is not an evidence that the amount you have will cause an excessive drop. If it were to do so the answer is simply to "use less peat moss", but let's back up a bit.
What water are you using? If it is alkaline (typical tapwater) then it can easily counteract the pH of peat moss, as peat moss is not an instant acidifier, rather as it degrades it gradually lowers it. Bone meal is rich in calcium, do you have an expectation that this calcium won't raise pH while limestone would?
What is the present soil pH level? If trying to adjust pH you must know this number or it's just a shot in the dark. More importantly have you used this mix previously and found results that correlated with excessively low soil pH symptoms?
If you were to use eggshells, or anything for that matter, you don't necessarily want them super ground up to disperse into the soil as quickly as possible, rather a gradual reaction as the peat gradually acidifies the soil, unless you have symptoms of a severe calcium deficiency.
Gypsum works well too
Just don't use dolomite lime if you are container growing!
I wonder if a little bit of drywall mud would work? bahaha tell my you havent thought that.MulchyDreams said:
Anytime peat moss is used in a container mix a liming agent is necessary whether it be lime, oyster shell flour, crab shell meal, etc.Dave2000 said:
Worm castings and compost contain some Ca as well to help buffer the pH from the peat moss but one of the others is a better choice with oyster and crab shell better than lime in every way IMHO.
Why's that? I use it in my mix and never noticed any bad effects.Proud Marine Dad said:
Oh man! lol Please don't try thatCayennemist said:
Dolomite lime has too high of a calcium to magnesium ratio. Too much magnesium can cause the soil to cake up. Also it takes a long time for dolomite to become available to the plant. Agricultural lime or calcite lime is much better. Oyster shell flour is better yet and cheap around here. $12.95 for 50#MulchyDreams said:
Great info...I didn't know that. Gives me a bit to think about in my mix. I do add some Azomite as well which is mostly calcium based but mainly added for micro-nutrients so that might inadvertently balance it out. I don't use too much of either...so where do you get your Oyster Shell flour? That's an amazing priceProud Marine Dad said:
http://organic-fertilizer-tips.blogspot.com/2011/05/dolomite-lime-why-using-lime-is.html
Here is a good link I just found which helped me understand dolomite a bit better. Pretty much what Proud Marine Dad said.
Only reason I say so is because the only info I find when I search online is about deer antlers is some supplement they banned a while back lol
Here is a good link I just found which helped me understand dolomite a bit better. Pretty much what Proud Marine Dad said.
Sounds like a good idea. Might become a new hyped up plant supplementikeepfish said:
Only reason I say so is because the only info I find when I search online is about deer antlers is some supplement they banned a while back lol I don't believe animal bones contain near enough calcium to buffer the pH like lime,crab, lobster and shellfish meals do.ikeepfish said:
There is a place named Lyngso Garden Materials near me in Redwood City, CA that sells it. http://www.lyngsogarden.com/MulchyDreams said:
They were out of stock when I went as I wanted to mix oyster shell flour and the crab meal I have so I just used 3/4 cup of crab meal per cubic foot alone.
There is an added bonus of using crab meal over lime and it's the chitin content which acts as an organic pesticide on the exoskeleton of little creatures you don't want.
Organic growing is incredible if you love soil science. Poor hydro guys.
lol too late...MulchyDreams said:Why's that? I use it in my mix and never noticed any bad effects.
Oh man! lol Please don't try that
So 65% limestone
20% Mica (a chemicaly inert silicate mineral)
Here is the USG MSDS for joint compound % by pound
Limestone >65%
Or Dolomite
Mica <20%
Attapulgite <5%
Vinyl Alcohol Polymer <5%
Hydroxypropyl Amylopectin Phosphate
<5%
Crystalline Silica <5%
Being in construction for 10 years, I can't count how many times I have seen drywallers dilute there mud down and dump it in to some near by bushes, it doesnt seem to kill anything so far
Yes I have added it "powder form" to potting soil in small amounts. Did it help.... Hell If I know
I use oyster shells in my aquaponics for buffering PH, the ammonia from the fish breaks them down much faster... but I was more referring to the calcium content. I still think kelp is the way to go if you want both, it seems to me that anything similar to shells or bones would take far too long to break down in soil.Proud Marine Dad said: