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seeds Isolating Pods For Pure Seed Stock

NorTexChiliJs

NorTexChiliJs

Okay Pepper Breeders and Seeders alike... I am growing over 30 varieties this year. This is only my second year growing peppers. I aquired plants thru this forum and thru local nurseries. I believe the superhot varieties come from great sources and are probably very pure strains. I would like to save quite a bit of seed for next year. I will be growing atleast a half acre of peppers next year. Im looking to hit 1000 plants. Anyhow... The seed for that project could be semi-expensive. I understand hybrids aren't always stable and can revert back to a parent pepper. Hopefully the varieties are stable. I hope to do this before my plants get too big and loaded. If that isn't a bad idea.

I have seen pantyhose on branches, large teabags on branches, a laundry basket covered in agro-netting.... What is the best method for this???

I'm sure you want to keep bees and other insects from entering the flowers, but can wind cause two nearby plants to cross pollinate?? Wind pollinates corn and sunflowers very well. I grow those also.

I am thinking of making a round cage from sometype of fence mesh. My plants are all young, so it can be less than 3 feet tall. Then covering the mesh with a material that will allow at least 70%light and air circulation, but hopefully fine enough to stop pollen that may be blowing in the wind. Maybe like speaker grill cloth or something...

I see alot of people here offer seeds for trade or sale. I hope to trade soon. If I offer someone seeds to trade, I want both people involved to get what they wanted. Not some strange cross.(even tho it may be a cool cross) This isn't yet an offer to trade.....

I appreciate any ideas!!!! THANKS!!
 
NorTexChiliJs said:
Okay Pepper Breeders and Seeders alike... I am growing over 30 varieties this year. This is only my second year growing peppers. I aquired plants thru this forum and thru local nurseries. I believe the superhot varieties come from great sources and are probably very pure strains. I would like to save quite a bit of seed for next year. I will be growing atleast a half acre of peppers next year. Im looking to hit 1000 plants. Anyhow... The seed for that project could be semi-expensive. I understand hybrids aren't always stable and can revert back to a parent pepper. Hopefully the varieties are stable. I hope to do this before my plants get too big and loaded. If that isn't a bad idea.

I have seen pantyhose on branches, large teabags on branches, a laundry basket covered in agro-netting.... What is the best method for this???

I'm sure you want to keep bees and other insects from entering the flowers, but can wind cause two nearby plants to cross pollinate?? Wind pollinates corn and sunflowers very well. I grow those also.

I am thinking of making a round cage from sometype of fence mesh. My plants are all young, so it can be less than 3 feet tall. Then covering the mesh with a material that will allow at least 70%light and air circulation, but hopefully fine enough to stop pollen that may be blowing in the wind. Maybe like speaker grill cloth or something...

I see alot of people here offer seeds for trade or sale. I hope to trade soon. If I offer someone seeds to trade, I want both people involved to get what they wanted. Not some strange cross.(even tho it may be a cool cross) This isn't yet an offer to trade.....

I appreciate any ideas!!!! THANKS!!
Click to expand...

Bosland et al., suggest using suggest using an isolation cage consisting of green or white colored nylon fabric (20 holes by 16 holes/2.5cm2 draped on a frame constructed of conduit piping. This prevents pollinating insects (the main pollinators for peppers rather than wind or rain) from entering. Else you can bag individual flower buds before the flower opens. Bottom line is you have to eliminate the insects from getting on one plant and then another.

Bosland et al., An effective plant field-cage to increase the production of genetically pure chile seed. HortScience 28 (10), pg. 1053 (1993)
 
Thank you TMP!!! However, I don't understand the 20 holes by 16 holes/2.5cm2. That would be close to 3/4 square inch??????

I assumed the wind and rain weren't much of a factor.

I am sure there is more opinion here on this forum......... Hello... is there anybody out there...(pink floyd)...
I will start making my cages tomorrow. I'm not sure what to cover them with. It seems like most bees and insects could fly thru a 3/4 inch hole?? I thought i may need something more like 1/16 inch or smaller. Maybe even just cover the cage with 50% shade cloth. If i can only get 4-10 seeds per bhut, I really need to isolate a whole plant but they are in the ground. This is the reason for wanting to make a cage.

Hello???

I see alot of people sharing seeds. Is everyone sharing cross pollinated seed??

IF you had seeds from the "original" parent plant(whether it be a bhut, 7pot, or other), wouldn't you want to share the PURE experience with someone else???
 
i get ants in my flowers... alot. soo i would have to securely get this protection sock arou d to keep ants out whih would be tough i thin and ants can pollinate too i guess maybe mojo has this problem down sout too.
 
NorTexChiliJs said:
I see alot of people sharing seeds. Is everyone sharing cross pollinated seed??
Click to expand...

Some people inadvertantly share cross pollinated seed (myself included). I do however tell people that my seeds are open pollinated.
I personally don't mind that much if the seeds i get are crossed, it only PMO when i think i am growing a superhot and it turns out to be Tabasco or something else that is very common or that i already have. :) I have shared seeds that was from a Dorset Naga and it turned out to be crossed with tabasco, i got some seed back and am growing them out to see what happens.
 
I am an anal retentive "possible statistic" person. It seems possible that if wind blew across a fertile flower, it could carry pollen to another plant nearby. Right??? Possible maybe not probable..

I have no problem with the cool crossed-peppers out there; I just dont want them. I like to know the answer is yes when i say yes this is a "Black Naga". :rofl: I don't have a black naga but the pic in the "black Naga" thread looks as fake as it gets. I want to be able to like something out of my garden and know that I can grow it next year if i want to. OR share it. Maybe I am excluding myself from experiencing something cool.

Would you be dissapointed if your Red Ferrari was a Yellow Taxi??????
 
just throw my five cents in... Wind can pollinate flowers on the same plant, so i don't see why it couldn't pollinate plants that are very close together. it maybe a very slim chance, but a chance. Your main worry would be the insect vectors, just like Nova was saying :)
 
My problem is that I want to remove all doubt about the purity of my seeds...
Since all my plants are in pots when I want to save seeds I just move the pot inside the house and play god with my finger for a few days.
Usually that solves my problem although with chinenses it can be a pain because of the very little pollen they produce.

Bleash
 
fair enough mate, if that's the only way to be %100 sure. But like you said Chinenses have very little pollen to share, so the chances of wind pollinating them would be minimal i would think. But hey, i don't claim to be an expert :)
 
NorTexChiliJs said:
Thank you TMP!!! However, I don't understand the 20 holes by 16 holes/2.5cm2. That would be close to 3/4 square inch??????

I assumed the wind and rain weren't much of a factor.

I am sure there is more opinion here on this forum......... Hello... is there anybody out there...(pink floyd)...
I will start making my cages tomorrow. I'm not sure what to cover them with. It seems like most bees and insects could fly thru a 3/4 inch hole?? I thought i may need something more like 1/16 inch or smaller. Maybe even just cover the cage with 50% shade cloth. If i can only get 4-10 seeds per bhut, I really need to isolate a whole plant but they are in the ground. This is the reason for wanting to make a cage.

Hello???

I see alot of people sharing seeds. Is everyone sharing cross pollinated seed??

IF you had seeds from the "original" parent plant(whether it be a bhut, 7pot, or other), wouldn't you want to share the PURE experience with someone else???
Click to expand...

I believe it would mean that the fabric would have 16 (across?) by 20 (down?) holes per square inch (2.5 cm = 1 inch), it just has to be small enough to keep the flying insects out...pretty small I guess. I also see ants on my flowers, I am not sure if they are pollenators, I suppose so but the paper I referenced didn't mention ants.
 
NorTexChiliJs said:
I am an anal retentive "possible statistic" person. It seems possible that if wind blew across a fertile flower, it could carry pollen to another plant nearby. Right??? Possible maybe not probable..

I have no problem with the cool crossed-peppers out there; I just dont want them. I like to know the answer is yes when i say yes this is a "Black Naga". :rofl: I don't have a black naga but the pic in the "black Naga" thread looks as fake as it gets. I want to be able to like something out of my garden and know that I can grow it next year if i want to. OR share it. Maybe I am excluding myself from experiencing something cool.

Would you be dissapointed if your Red Ferrari was a Yellow Taxi??????
Click to expand...
I agree to a point that you want to know what you are getting, I would be happy with hybrid seed if I knew what the cross was and if I had enough of the seed to plant out a segregating population so that I could select the best of the bunch and make sure to self them to get seed. Although if you go into obtaining no certified seed then you should expect that the seed was open pollenated and out crossing took place. I had this with Jamaican hot chocloates, I have about 5 planted and half are chinense looking and the other half are bell peppers (haven't tried them yet to see if they are hot). I wasn't exactly pleased but oh well.
 
Wind can pollinate pepper flowers by shaking the pollen loose. Most pepper flowers point down, so I don't worry about the pollen going throught the tulle and flying up to get in the flower. Could happen, but I believe it is unlikely. The problem I have with tulle is after it warms up outside, the temp gets too hot inside the bag and I get real bad flower drop. I have brought some plants inside to isolate this year, and will make a couple of screen cages out of window screen. Hopefully this will keep it a little cooler in there than the tulle did. I would think that 50% shade cloth will work as well. Haven't used it though, so not sure of the size of the holes.

jacob
 
Okay then. If the primary potential for cross pollination is from bugs, I'm going forward with building a few enclosures.

I have a few ideas about the frame, but think i'll probably buy 1" or 1.5" pvc and make simple skeleton about 20" by 20" sguare and maybe 36" tall. I only want a few pods ofr seed from my plants while they are young...I think. Then I will just let them produce consumable pods without covers later. Lemme know if there are other opinins here please.....

Then I will look into the cost difference in shade cloth versus typical window screen. I will be using shade cloth for canopies so i should have some anyway. Unless anyone thinks that 50% shade cloth would anyway be a problem.... I was in AJ's backyard a few weeks ago and the tomatos in his shade cloth greenhouse were growing great. It still seemed pretty bright in there to me.


My next question is; how well will the flowers pollinate if there are no bees or other insects???? I am familiar with hand pollinating, but have heard it mentioned that a decent gust of wind every once in a while is sufficient. Or possibly shaking the plant daily... I don't mind lending a helping hand.
 
I took no precautions to isolate this year, next year I will for sure. I figured I would just keep ordering from CNN and save myself from the hassle of germination ext. however some of the ones that I grew from seed are doing better and have much thicker stems. If you get an awesome strain you want to keep from cross pollinating.
 
I was going to begin isolating seeds as a ton of pods and numerous more buds are starting to form on my plants.

I have all of my plants in one corner of my backyard, and I plan on using tulle to isloate them. I was going to bag some buds and transport the plant to the other side of my house, so it is there alone.

Is it safe to say that one layer of tulle in this isolate location is sufficient for pure seed, or are two or more layers typically used? Will multiple layers affect the buds/ drop them?

PS... I have some AMAZING Brazilian Starfish that are already 3' tall and with beautiful little pods forming that I plan on isolating first if anyone is interested in getting seeds in a few weeks. I was skeptical about these plants because I heard alot of trouble was had with them in the past, but these plants rock.

Thanks for the input!
 
Noshownate said:
i get ants in my flowers... alot. soo i would have to securely get this protection sock arou d to keep ants out whih would be tough i thin and ants can pollinate too i guess maybe mojo has this problem down sout too.
Click to expand...

Yep Nate I sure do have the same problem, ants love crawling around in the flowers, in my beds I group same species of plants to reduce chance of X'ing but this isn't a guarantee no any means, its just a hope that the next plant the insect visits is the same species , next way I do it, I keep a few plants that I absolutly want to stay pure inside my house, I also have recruited 2 friends who grow other veggies and not chiles so I dont worry about X'ing since my chiles are the only ones they have, I keep 2 plants of same species at each of their houses over 10 miles away and they are growing in containers inside as well. but Im not trying to isolate everything Im growing just a few select ones, gonna do some cloning as well.
 
I isolate plants by bringing them indoors or into my empty greenhouse for a few weeks when flowers start to form, and I also give 1 variety to my neighbor a few miles away every year for isolation and for him to grow.
I also only every grow 1 pubescens variety each year and since they can't cross with others, purity is nearly guaranteed
 
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