labels Label Discrepancies & the law

Gemini Crow Sauce Company

Gemini Crow Sauce Company

Not sure if this is a state by state issue or throughout....
 
Being in my first official summer of business I have signed up to take part in 3-4 farmers markets per week, and each one seems to have a different view of the laws involved, especially when it comes to the labeling of my sauces.
 
I'll use BLACKBERRY BELLE for example purposes.
 

 
 
Some of the farmers markets were fine with everything I submitted, but I have hit a wall with one.
There problem is that I have listed my business address on the label, rather than the address of where the sauces were manufactured/bottled. They are insisting, that unless I am M/B the sauces in Montague, NJ, then I am misrepresenting the company, and they won't issue the health certificate in order for me to be allowed to sell at this one market. They want me to either create new labels (which I can't do as I already have ordered large amounts of each), or create a supplemental label which can be affixed to the bottle when selling at the FM.
 
This was not brought up by any other entity I have reached out to in regards to selling my stuff....
 
For an example.....High River Sauces uses the owners home address on their label. I know that Endorphin Farms in Florida bottles and manufactures.....I have a lot of sauces in my house and am looking at the labels of a lot of these sauces and nobody seems to have the manufacturer mentioned on the labels. And these are sacues that I know are in retail larger locations and stores....
 
Not a real big deal, if it makes my life easier, before I goto print the next batch of labels, I will add this info.....but I am unclear as to if this is mandatory, a state by state thing? a case by case thing, a ballbuster thing? a farmers market thing? an insurance issue?
 
I'll do it if the law says so, but does that mean that all my fellow peers are in the wrong to and just a matter of time before someone lays down the law and makes us all do it?
 
#alwayslearnin
 
 
 
 
 
Sort by date Sort by votes
In CA it's my business address that belongs on the bottle. I hold 2 health permits presently, but used to hold 3. None of the counties had an issue with it. 
 
It might be case by case - remember, some of the rules are up to interpretation by the state inspector/health dept/PA.  I previously gave you the example of the hand-washing station. One county it's got to be hot water. The other two don't care. Same state, same law, different interpretations. Good luck! 
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
It's not the biggest deal in the world...
I have already reached out to 3 other Sunday markets, which are closer to me, and I am sure I will fit one of their criteria and be accepted.
 
I was willing to travel 70 minutes for this one cause I heard it draws tremendous crowds....
 
Again, I don't want to be 'above the law' in any sense, but it is frustrating when 2 markets within 25 miles of eachother had a completely different set of 'legal requirements'.
 
we'll see what happens.....
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
My label proofs had a PO Box.  The woman I am working with in Consumer Protection here in CT stated it had to be a physical address.  I changed it to the address where production is being done and she approved it.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
I'm looking at a lot of 'condiment' bottles in my fridge and cabinet and none seem t have the place of manufacturing listed on them, and these are coming from all different states.....
 
I'll contact the Department of Health for NJ and try and get an answer.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
GeminiCrow said:
It's not the biggest deal in the world...
I have already reached out to 3 other Sunday markets, which are closer to me, and I am sure I will fit one of their criteria and be accepted.
 
I was willing to travel 70 minutes for this one cause I heard it draws tremendous crowds....
 
Again, I don't want to be 'above the law' in any sense, but it is frustrating when 2 markets within 25 miles of eachother had a completely different set of 'legal requirements'.
 
we'll see what happens.....
Click to expand...
 
Your phrasing makes me go "hmmmm...."

Is this the Health Dept saying this, or the Farmer's Market org saying this? 

My farmer's markets are certified - e.g. they get certain tax benefits by holding a certification, but they have to mandate certain things of their vendors. As a craft food, I cannot re-sell sauce made out of the state. My manufacturing facility is ~100 miles from me and my business is registered in CA. If either of those were not true, I would not be allowed to be a vendor in my markets. 
 
I prefer these kinds of markets because they maintain a high caliber of product, and truly enhance the experience of "shopping locally".  In CA it's what separates a farmer's market from a so-called "flea market".
 
If that's the case, there's nothing that the health dept will be able to do for you - the market rules may be what they are for a reason. 
 
Maybe I'm inferring too much from what you said - you threw me a bit when you said "I have already reached out to 3 other Sunday markets," - that seems to indicate a market-by-market decision which has nothing to do with your governing process authority. 
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
My inspector (Washington State Dept of Ag)( a couple of inspectors ago....) wanted a Point Of Contact for the customer to call/mail with questions or issues.  Most BigCorp food products are now listing a website as the point of contact.  They don't even have a physical address on the product.  I ended up just putting everything on the label- website, mailing and physical addy, phone number.....it seemed like the best option as I didn't want a run of labels to be pitched. 
 
Even after all that....I still got screwed on the BBQ Sauce label.  The sauce contains butter which I printed as ...." , butter (cream, salt), ..."  And the inspector still wants the wording "Contains-Milk" as an allergen alert.  :rolleyes:  Give Me A Break!!!  OK, anyway....   
 
As I understand Washington retail-vs-wholesale regulations, the point is for the customer to be able to contact someone with questions.  At the FM, you are selling directly to the customer.  Here in WA, a FM product doesn't even need a label because the maker is selling directly to the consumer and if the consumer wants to know if there are onions in the sauce, they can ask right there at the FM booth. 
 
When the product is on the shelf at a store, it needs that contact information for the consumer. 
 
 
If you really want into that one market, I'd suggest contacting them and ask for clarification and explanation of their regulations.  Is it based on local/state/fed regulations?  Or did some previous FM board member get a bug up their a$$ against some previous market vendor and instigate those regulations that are not supported by state/fed regulations?
 
Our local FM has an option for vendors to apply for an exemption of (whatever policy) and the market will review it on a case-by-case situation.  Might be an option to look into.
 
Also, there's a good chance they may not actually know what the regulations are.  I've run into this with some bbq sauce competitions.  They REQUIRE a bar code and a couple other things in order for the sauce to be admitted to the competition.  Their thinking was that a bar code would ensure the sauce was made by a licensed processor.  I pointed out that bar codes are NOT an FDA requirement, they are usually required by wholesalers and distributors (not anyone related to the food safety industry) for their distribution system tracking etc.  Bar codes can be purchased for $50 on the internet.  A person could buy the bar code and make a sauce in their kitchen and appear to be a licensed food processor.  I also pointed out that there are many legal/licensed small processors who do not have a bar codes, but their products are inspected/FDA and PA approved, their facilities are inspected.....  you get the idea.  Same thing for NIPs (Nutrition information panels)  NIPs are NOT required by the FDA for small processors!  Certain other things have to be done for legal exemption, but NIPs should not be a requirement for admission to a market, competition, or event. 
 
I've contacted a couple of these contests pointing out these issues and received the reply "thank you for your input, we will review your comments...."  We'll see next year when the rules come out if it's made any difference.  Sometimes they just need a little education as to what the regs are nowadays. 
 
If, for whatever reason, there is no way around the market's regulation and you really want into the market.... look at a small home printed label with the clarification/statement,  ask if you can just give the customer a slip of paper with the required information, or (even better!) ask if a sign on your FM table is good enough.  The information is Clearly Posted, should be enough.
 
Good Luck!~
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Nothing insane here.....I have applied to 5 different NJ based farmers markets, and I have had to jump through different type of hoops with each one. Doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to the laws/regulations/ or requirements each one ask for in their applications.
 
This market in question had me fill out a FM vendor application, but I also had to submit an application (with $fee$) to the cities health department.....they are the ones who are telling me that my label needs certain info.... The FM itself is fine with what I submitted and are already advertising me, without the cities 'blessing'....
 
The woman at the city health department is checking with her superiors but told me that i could possible just print up a 'stamp' sized label with the manuacturers/bottlers contact info on it, and i can just stick them on the bottom of the bottle...She thinks that may suffice, but won't know till Monday...
 
As a 'Plan-B', I have reached out to several other markets, with the hopes that there won't be the (what seems like city to city) nit-picking.....Sure, I have heard great stuff about this market and the traffic that walks through there in a 4 hour period, but I'm just happy to be out there....I'm in two Saturday markets, and am close to securing a weekday market.....Just want my Sunday to be as easy as the others......a 4 day work week this summer would be great!
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
GeminiCrow said:
Everyone hides behind NJ State Helath 'Code', yet every single market I have spoken to or applied to, or have been accepted by or denied by, have different interpretations of said 'Code'.
 
Just wanna sell my sauces dammit! LOL
Click to expand...
 
It sounds like none of this has to do with the state and all of this has to do with the market organizations.  And it sounds like they're fishing for an excuse to deny you in some instances, which unfortunately is their right. 
 
Markets who receive state funding or tax benefits by meeting certain criteria tend to err on the side of caution as well. 
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Part of me wants to call the NJ Health department to get clarifications...but then i don't wanna rock the boat and bring down the farmers market industry either....LOL
 
Just sucks, cause all the FM organizers all get gung ho about having me on board and the the city health department comes in and ruins the party.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
It's call the AHJ= Authority Having Jurisdiction. 
 
We run into this in the electrical industry all the time.  Some things are open to interpretation of the AHJ, and each inspector has their "pet peeves".  Just find out what specifically they are asking for that your labels/processing/doesn't encompass and try to "request an exemption" based on that all your other licenses are up to snuff, or do what they require for additional sticker information or whatever.   
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Two issues I have encountered with two different town's health department's.
 
1) I was 'denied' from one market because my label does not have my manufacturer's name and address on it; only my business address.....I have come into contact with probably 150-200 hot sauces in the last few years for research and personal enjoyment. I don't think more than two or three TOPS mentioned their manufacturer or manufacturer with address...Looking at a lot of my peers labels, I see only business addresses...The guy said it is NJ code.  Easy enough, he said, if i print a stamp size label, even if it is a mailing address label i can get at staples with the name and address and stick it to any bottle i have on my table at the market, I will be fine.....problem averted.
 
2) i got a call from the county health department asking where i stored my sauces....this i just plead ignorance as i never though too deeply into it and just kind of followed the lead of my friends in the biz. I told him i stored them in my basement which is climate controlled, with a dehumidifier, and they are off the floor..yadda yadda.... he came back with i can't store in a residential and they have to be stored at a commercial establishment.....I have a local deli near me who said he would help me out with storage, so problem is hopefully fixed there as well...
 
#learningasigo
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Now you know why I rent pallet space at my distributor. It's not because I hate money. :rofl:
Is the market gonna have an issue with the sauce being made out of state? That's kind of a double edged sword.

I've also never heard of the mfgr on the label (unless it's made & sold by the same business, e.g. You have your own production facility...)
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Some market managers have frowned on renting me space at the market because the sauces are done in FL, but most just want the weekly rent and say they will 'let this one slide'.....yeah, thanks for the favor! lol
 
as for the label stuff, i have not sat down with anyone 'professional' in regards to what HAS to be on there or not, but yeah, i have seen 'Endorphin Farms' mentioned on a label once or twice, but never with an address, and i don't think i have ever seen another manufacturer mentioned....so who knows....
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
GeminiCrow said:
Some market managers have frowned on renting me space at the market because the sauces are done in FL, but most just want the weekly rent and say they will 'let this one slide'.....yeah, thanks for the favor! lol
 
as for the label stuff, i have not sat down with anyone 'professional' in regards to what HAS to be on there or not, but yeah, i have seen 'Endorphin Farms' mentioned on a label once or twice, but never with an address, and i don't think i have ever seen another manufacturer mentioned....so who knows....
Click to expand...
 
Funny enough this was asked on my thread with my label designs.  I looked up CT law for mine and indeed, I need to list it like:
 
3.  Declaration of responsibility, including the name and address of the processor or distributor, e.g., "Processed by," "Manufactured by," or "Distributed for" followed by the name of the processor/manufacturer. Name and full address including street address are required unless the processor is listed in a telephone directory. If so, the processor's name, town and state is an acceptable format.
 
Click to expand...
Source: http://www.ct.gov/DCP/cwp/view.asp?a=1621&q=469920
 
When I went around to the local supermarkets, specifically looking for CT based food companies, indeed, they all had "Manufactured by" "Made for" or something similar, with the street address.  No one used the shortened version.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top