Hi, I'm only 13 ATM but I want to get into genetics later. I don't have access to mutative chemicals so cross breeding is something i want to try. I'm going to grow a sweet pepper variety next year and want to cross it with what I think is a c. Annum to get either a smaller but spicier "sweet pepper" or a bigger and milder "hot pepper" any help? I want to make a seed so that I can regrow and possibly giveaway.
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hybrid Making stable crosses?
- Thread starter shamair28
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This is a nice visual guide: http://www.fatalii.net/Growing_chile_peppers/Breeding
I haven't tried crossbreeding yet, but when I do I'll likely be looking to use this guide as a starting point.
I haven't tried crossbreeding yet, but when I do I'll likely be looking to use this guide as a starting point.
I think you could potentially get that by crossing lots of different varieties. Maybe a sweet Annum with a Chinese of sorts. They cross well. Or even two Chinese. Maybe the Trinidad Perfume with another spicier Chinese? Lots of options and possibilities. The Pubescence are the only ones that don't cross with other kinds I believe.
I don't know much about the process by personal experience and am just starting this myself! I'm pollinating manually and have two plants seperated. Plan on learning as I go. My goal is to get a ridiculously big pepper with a decent amount of heat [habanero level].
I don't know much about the process by personal experience and am just starting this myself! I'm pollinating manually and have two plants seperated. Plan on learning as I go. My goal is to get a ridiculously big pepper with a decent amount of heat [habanero level].
This will also be helpful, it's a Punnett Square calculator. It's a good way to see the probability of the distribution of genetic traits. In peppers, Red and Spicy are typically dominant genes (there are always exceptions.)
http://scienceprimer.com/punnett-square-calculator
If you cross a Red pepper (RR) with a yellow pepper (rr), the Square would look like this for the F1...and if you cross the F1 with itself or with another F1...that's when the surprises come. You can see that in the F2 generation you have a 50% chance of getting another Rr, a 25% chance of a completely red gene pepper, and a 25% chance of a rr or a yellow pepper. This is just dealing with color and there are way too many other traits to predict anything (pod shape, spiciness, productivity etc. etc.) Nature is all about mutations! You might even get orange out of it after a few generations down the road, you never know!
http://scienceprimer.com/punnett-square-calculator
If you cross a Red pepper (RR) with a yellow pepper (rr), the Square would look like this for the F1...and if you cross the F1 with itself or with another F1...that's when the surprises come. You can see that in the F2 generation you have a 50% chance of getting another Rr, a 25% chance of a completely red gene pepper, and a 25% chance of a rr or a yellow pepper. This is just dealing with color and there are way too many other traits to predict anything (pod shape, spiciness, productivity etc. etc.) Nature is all about mutations! You might even get orange out of it after a few generations down the road, you never know!
Spicy Mushroom said:
There is one pubescens cross in existence that I know of and it is called the Rocopica. A cross between Rocoto and a wild species called Ulupica. I believe Nigel as sampled this before.
shamair28 said:
You have a lot of experimentation ahead, good thing you are starting young ;-D
What the cross will do. Something along the lines of getting the kind I mentioned before. Would you by any chance know how I would get a cross to continue on for multiple generations?cruzzfish said:
Oh just looked up the species, turns out I am NOT growing sweet peppers, and am making a cross of two anuums, any difference with crossing two anuums?
No difference with anuums. What you can do to keep the cross continued is to put an empty bag of tea around the flowers of the next generation so that they can't get any pollen from a third party plant. A long as the hybrid plant can't be pollinated by anyone else, it will go through the subsequent generations until it becomes stable at 8.shamair28 said:
That's not entirely true, with a hybrid even if it pollinates itself it won't produce the same traits for F2 if it has heterozygous genes.cruzzfish said:
I guess you could use different alleles...X, Y, Z, whatever...brown is really more of a mutation of red, so the darker the "red" the darker the result from the genes. Darker almost always going to be more dominant. look at Pimenta de Neyde crossescruzzfish said:
continuing on for many generations takes many many many plants. You select the traits of the F1 from whichever plants show it and use seeds from those. I have brown hair that's heterozygous with blonde we'll call that Xx and green eyes, which is a mutation of blue, so you could say my eye traits are homozygous --bb. If I had children with someone with hetero brown eyes Bb, and hetero brown hair Xx the result on the chart would look like this:shamair28 said:
if you look at it, I have a 2/16 or 12% chance in having children with both blonde hair and blue/green eyes in that particular example. People are a "touchy" example with genetics like this...but if you compare it to plants you could plant 16 of them from the same cross and *maybe* get two that have the recessive traits...
If I have children with someone that has homozygous brown eyes BB--there is a 0% chance of me having children with blue eyes...my grandchildren might though.
If I have children with someone that has blue/green eyes, I have a 100% chance of having children with blue/green eyes
I have brown hair that's heterozygous with blonde we'll call that Xx and green eyes, which is a mutation of blue, so you could say my eye traits are homozygous --bb. If I had children with someone with hetero brown eyes Bb, and hetero brown hair Xx the result o
if you look at it, I have a 2/16 or 12% chance in having children with both blonde hair and blue/green eyes in that particular example. People are a "touchy" example with genetics like this...but if you compare it to plants you could plant 16 of them from the same cross and *maybe* get two that have the recessive traits...
If I have children with someone that has homozygous brown eyes BB--there is a 0% chance of me having children with blue eyes...my grandchildren might though.
If I have children with someone that has blue/green eyes, I have a 100% chance of having children with blue/green eyes
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Exactly. Just a nitpick though. Humans have about 14 color deciding genes, for eyes, hair, and skin, and green isn't a mutation on blue exactly. Dark skin usually means dark hair, but it's clearly different pigment genes as shown here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Vanuatu_blonde.jpg
Edit: In regards to your first point, I don't think I mentioned anything about F2 being the same as F1. If I did, sorry for the confusion. I meant that if it is pollinated by another plant it resets the counter because of new material being put in the cross, resulting in a whole new set of genes it has to make homozygous.
if you look at it, I have a 2/16 or 12% chance in having children with both blonde hair and blue/green eyes in that particular example. People are a "touchy" example with genetics like this...but if you compare it to plants you could plant 16 of them from the same cross and *maybe* get two that have the recessive traits...
If I have children with someone that has homozygous brown eyes BB--there is a 0% chance of me having children with blue eyes...my grandchildren might though.
If I have children with someone that has blue/green eyes, I have a 100% chance of having children with blue/green eyes
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Exactly. Just a nitpick though. Humans have about 14 color deciding genes, for eyes, hair, and skin, and green isn't a mutation on blue exactly. Dark skin usually means dark hair, but it's clearly different pigment genes as shown here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Vanuatu_blonde.jpg
Edit: In regards to your first point, I don't think I mentioned anything about F2 being the same as F1. If I did, sorry for the confusion. I meant that if it is pollinated by another plant it resets the counter because of new material being put in the cross, resulting in a whole new set of genes it has to make homozygous.
Here is possible C.annuum x C.pubescens interspecific hybrid.Spicy Mushroom said:
http://www.faqs.org/patents/app/20100058494
I have had the pleasure of growing a couple pubescens x eximium complex hybrids. There are more and hope to have them in the garden next season.
Pr0digal_son said:
hey John,
i thought Pubescens dont cross with other Capsicums.
shamair28 said:
There are ways to speed things up a bit. A few years ago I started a bunch of Caribbean red seedlings - way more than I was gonna need. So I planted the plants that I wanted to keep and left the rest in 4" pots and gave them away. One of my friends who got one never got around to planting it out and it managed to produce healthy, ripe fruit in its little home. In early June.
Once a plant feels it has used up all its available room, it will stop putting energy into getting larger and start putting energy into reproduction. If you grow all of your subsequent generations in small pots, it will force the plants to pod up in a matter of months - allowing you to grow out several generations of selections in one season.
I'm going to try this forcing method to put some work into a Red Savina x fatalii F1 cross that I got from a member here. I'm going to grow one or two plants of the F1, and then plant 10 or 20 4" pots of F2 plants for further selection. And so on...
My advise to you in regard to parent plant selection would be to pick plants that produce lots of small(isn) fruit. Maybe use something like a banana pepper or a sweet cherry and cross it with a white bullet habanero or a Caribbean red habanero. These varieties tend to set fruit early, ripen fruit quickly and produce prolifically. These traits will take a lot of waiting out of your work.
Good luck and keep us posted. This is going to be an interesting and fun experiment (and thread)!
I will send you some goodies in a month. I owe you a favor hun.PepperLover said:hey John,
i thought Pubescens dont cross with other Capsicums.
PepperLover said:
hey John,
i thought Pubescens dont cross with other Capsicums.
They state that they are making a annuum hybrid that will cross with a pubescens.
"performing a first cross between a C. annuum plant or a C. annuum hybrid and a plant of a bridging Capsicum species selected from the group consisting of: C. chinense, C. baccatum, C. praetermissum, and C. eximium to form a C. annuum hybrid, and crossing one or more progeny from the first cross with a C. pubescens plant to form the hybrid between C. annuum and C. pubescens."
Check the bottom of this page http://www.fatalii.net/Growing_chile_peppers/BreedingPepperLover said:hey John,
i thought Pubescens dont cross with other Capsicums.