My first "real" indoor grow, unknowns and purple cayenne

Hello.
 
I live in a rather small apartment in the city and have previously had plants by a window in summer. They've all started flowering and the flowers have always dropped and no fruits have ever developed.
 
This glog will be about the couple of unknown plants I initiated in soil, by the window sometime during the middle of this summer. Seeing they'd have no chance to develop properly before fall and 6 hrs of dim daylight per day I started researching how to go about growing them under artificial lighting in a space efficient manner indoors. Also wanted to pick a couple of seeds that were attractive myself, so the glog will also be about those later starters. Finally I was intrigued by this hydro method: https://gabeshydroponics.wordpress.com/2015/06/12/tomatoes-and-chillis-grown-in-hempy-buckets/ and decided it seemed space-effective and not too complicated for a wannabe gardener.
 
2017-10-05, sunshine & soil

 
 
 

 

[chelicerae]

Two days later I had a grow tent and 2 75W LEDs and made the transplant. There was a lot of soil everywhere and the large plant retained some as I put them in a 75%/25% perlite/vermiculite mix. Ventilation comes via a channel fan (blowing out) as this is apparently required for ventilation in a tent. I found this really neat tray that would enable me to water the plants until the reservoir at the bottom overflowed without water ending up on the tent floor. (P.s - the heavy curtains are less for keeping light out, that the tent does(which is good because how else would I be able to stand a super bright light in the apartment), it's because this is my bedroom and in summer in Sweden it gets bright out very early and I don't want to get up and go to work at 0400 hrs)
 
 

 

[chelicerae]

2017-10-14:
 
The transplants are being fed with PH 6,5 water and micro& primary nutrients via B'Essentials and FloraNova, respectively. I am watering every fourth to fifth day; when the top layer of substrate gets dry. They have survived the transplant but are looking a bit patchy.
 
At the same time I've managed to quicken a couple of purple cayenne seeds.
 
Have also decreed that the temperatures are too low, 20-24 C in the tent, asked here and recveived advice and then a HPS light for warmth & light.
 
 
 
 
 

 

[chelicerae]

2017-10-15: The HPS is installed (I acquired a 400w and 250w because I have no experience with these things and didn't want toaster oven temps and crispy plants, but I did want to raise temps a couple of Cs..it's the 250W I'm running)
 
 
2017-10-16: The first purple cayenne seed is up in a small plastic "green house" with bad ventilation, in rockwool and weak nutrient pH adjusted water.
 
 
2017-10-19: The transplants are surviving, growing if looking a bit patchy still.
 
 

 

[chelicerae]

2017-10-21: More cayennes are seeing the light (of the window), I found a way to keep those coffee filters moist (had them on a saucer on a heat mat but they dried out quickly): two round clay pot trays against each other, to form a round chamber, upon the heatmat, and the coffee filters taped to the chamber's ceiling).
 
The transplats are surviving.
 
Am doing 16/8 lighting hrs.
 
2017-10-26: Sometime around this date I found that the seedlings were not receiving enough ventilation..they were really enjoying stretching out but white spots started appearing on their rock wool. I removed the cover and put them in the tent with the transplants.  The transplants were getting bigger,
 
 

 

[chelicerae]

2017-10-30: The top leaves of the seedlings are turning a shade of black.
 
2017-11-01: Transplants getting larger. A turbo fan was added at the bottom back of the tent to blow against the transplants in order to strengthen the branchwork. Re-planting the seedlings..had to improvize to get them into the larger rock wool cubes.
 
 

 

[chelicerae]

2017-11-05:  Seedlings and transplants doing OK in the orange light.  The larger one looks about to produce flower pods.
 
2017-11-11: Transplants looking rather healthy, seedlings OK. The seednlings have been watered once per week and then until the reservoir overflows (and the hole a few cms from the bottom of each bucket starts leaking); did replace FloraNova with FloraMato for the larger transplant, which now has two white flowers and more flower pods on the way. So B'Essentials + FloraMato.  Keep the faith!!

 

[dragonsfire]

Looking Good

 

[chelicerae]

2017-11-11 supplemental:
 
Since I've experienced dead flowers before I've read: https://dengarden.com/gardening/Pepper-Plant-Blossom-Drop
 
and all mentioned variables are somewhat under control I feel.
 
Temps vary between 21 and 27C, RH between 32 and 42%, temp fluctuations aren't terribly sudden..the HPS light turns on and off.
 
Pollination: The transplants sway gently with the wind from the turbo fan during the daytime hrs; I used a qtip to gently rub inside both flowers; 1,2,1, 2.
 
Nitrogen is lower in the FloraMato mix and Hydro allows one to switch nutrients faster, though there is still some soil clinging to some of the roots of the larger transplant.
 
Deep infrequent watering: check. It's harder to overwater with this kind of hydro I believe. The plants have always tended to look a bit low a day or two after watering but then perk up noticably.
 
I "overwatered" the larger one to get most of the older nutrient mix (and nitrogen) out of the reservoir, this means that the tray is a small lake which helps humidity. Flowers - fail me not!

 

[chelicerae]

2017-11-12:
 
I happened to read
http://thehotpepper.com/topic/61193-how-long-after-hydro-nutrient-switch-until-flowers-stop-dropping/
and http://thehotpepper.com/topic/66512-hydro-grow-never-any-fruit-need-advise/ ...felt some trepidation...surely it can't be impossible (even if I haven't seen a hydro-chili-success story yet)..?
 
...
 
.....
 
 
.............
 
The whole flower pod stems die and fall to the earth? : (
 
Thanks for the cheer Dragonsfire, if you happen to have any advice..

 

[chelicerae]

2017-11-13: Increased RH (channel fan blows 24/7, there's quite a lot of air going out of that tent, which means there's quite a lot going in, so the air shouldn't be very stagnant) has caused the rock wool to grow more than chilies..  I've gotten a light kind of white mold on soil, rockwool seems to attract more colorful versions.
 

 

[chelicerae]

2017-11-14: Small ones are (still) looking a bit patchy..from nutrient imbalance or mold is hard to say.
 
More flowers on the largest transplant. They are swaying in the wind from the turbo fan but I've tried pollinating with a qtip as per a short youtube video with an italian guy saying it is 'very simple, very easy'. Yes it is, so if the flowers fall to the ground, taking all hope with them, they aren't doing so for a lack of pollination I shall assume.
 
 

 

[chelicerae]

2017-11-18: The fourth and smallest of the small ones is gone, the rock wool was slightly moist in the morning when I went to work, came home late after a long day to find it shrivelled and the rock wool dry (and still moldy). Lessons learnt:
 
-Seedlings must have a moist substrate at all times, lest they perish quickly
-Rock wool seems more prone to mold than soil
 
Should I try to remove the seedlings from their moldy rock wool or trust that they are old enough to not be killed by it?
 
The transplants are looking alright and the smaller one has almost developed flowers so started on the FloraMato for it too. The other transplant has around 6 flowers no, no more drops yet. A few of its leaves are kind of yellow...like nitrogen deficiency here: https://www.worldofchillies.com/growing_chillies/growing-tips/chilli-plant-nutrient-guide/chilliplantnutrientguide.html but flowering plants are supposed to have lower levels of Nitrogen, hence FloraMato. I'll mix in a bit of FloraNova if it goes more yellow.
 

 

[chelicerae]

2917-11-19: Catsaster!
 
Weekends are seldom restful now as nothing gets done during the work week, as a result the mind sometimes strays...as I was shopping for cat food among other things I had left the zipper of the tent open by two decimeters or so..that doesn't make a hole as the tent fabric is pretty stretched but a determined critter can of course push itself through.. they ate the two relatively healthy seedlings and took a bite out of the largest one and then overturned it. The fourth and dead one I had not yet removed and it was eaten too. Members of the nightshade family aren't supposed to be good for cat stomachs but whenever someone says with a slight air of "of course"  : 'They can sense what isn't good for them and will avoid that' I must laugh a little.
 
I extracted the largest one and only surviving seedling to a pot of soil. No more moldy rock wool for the time being. The main root was intact but the stem had been weakened by being overturned so I buried it a little bit and it sits well in the soil now. We'll see if it lives. If I forget the zipper once more it certainly won't.
 
 

 

[qandeel]

Thanks for sharing your grow log. Some of the leaves in the earlier updates looked very yellowish with brown spots. What can cause this?

So is rock wool not good for raising pepper seeds?

 

[chelicerae]

Potassium, manganese, nitrogen, as per the link in the next-to-last post above..hard to say, but the transplants have recovered fairly well I dare say. Whether I get any fruit remains to be seen.
 
Many chili growers swear by rock wool and I think that if I had some place to put it with even more airflow that was cat-free I could perhaps make it work but as it stands even a channel fan that moves a lot of air isn't enough in a tent and since the seedlings commit hairikiri in about half an hour after the rw dries out fungus and mold appears to really have a fighting chance.                 

 

[chelicerae]

2017-11-20:
 
The sole remaining purpe cayenne, looking a bit chewed upon, now in soil in a clay pot, is not dead yet.
 
I attempted to pollinate the largest transplant just now, the flowers were open and..they fall off, taking the first part of the stem they grow on with them, as in the picture above. The plant itself is sporting new sets of leaves. and is continuing to produce (doomed) flowers. Temp at 26C, rel humidity at 38% presently. If a higher rh makes rock wool catch mold then I don't think that's the answer but I can't say I'm very certain. 
 
We'll see with happens with the other transplant, if it lives to getting flowers.
 
Edit.
 
I found https://spicesontheweb.co.uk/chilli-flower-drop-off to be fairly well-written. Too much nutrition doesn't generally cause flower drop off but a higher temperature difference than 10C during day and night might. RH is important as is potassium. I don't really understand " try allowing fresh air so the plants feels more like outside if growing indoors"...use a fan? Yep, but it affects rh negatively so I'm thinking of switching the channel fan off for a few hours during the night (the turbo fan is always off during the 8hrs the HPS is off).
 
I put the bucket of pH-lowered water in the tent, rh is now at >50%. If I can hold it like that and I don't put any rock wool inside then perhaps some hope may grow? "due to a lack of nutrients or humidity the plant will not produce pollen and therefore the flower is dead before it started and will eventually drop off"
 
 
 
 

 

[chelicerae]

2017-11-26:
 
RH is a tricky thing in central Sweden during winter. About half the time we have sub-zero Cs and the humidity inside and as such inside the tent varies with the outdoor climate. I can feel it and the plants most likely can. With water in a bucket and on the tray the two transplants are standing on I get around 40% rh in the tent, which isn't enough according to the link above. Have started the construction of a mesh cover for the HPS lamp (so that the Giana plants aren't burned by the sun).
 
The smaller of the two transplants lost almost all of its leaves along the main stem and looked like a palm tree for a few days.  The other one has produced one or two more doomed flowers.
 
The surviving purple cayenne has experienced "transplant-stillness" for the last week, which is a good sign. I think it'll make the move to soil.
 
The two Royal Black seeds I prepared for germination a week ago have done so and been put in a soil-based mini greenhouse.
 
My surviving hope is that summer (can't put the plants on the balcony - cats would get to them) will bring a higher indoor rh.
 
 
 
 
 
 

 

[chelicerae]

Hey Glog, not spotted for some time..fear not:
 
2017-12-10: "A Sea of Dead Flowers"
 
As mentioned previously temps outdoors swing between +7 and -4 C, which means the indoor rh varies between 35% and 50% @20C. As long as the channel fan is running the grow tent is always 3-5 points drier.
There are currently two buckets in the tent together with the plants, one has a towel hanging over its side to maximize exposure. The fan has moved to point straight up from directly underneath the lamp, the latter which hangs in a cage now.
 
I purchased a humidifier, something like this one: https://www.harveynorman.com.au/philips-air-humidifier-with-nanocloud-technology.html , which can be seen in one of the images towards the bottom left, near the wall the tent side with the primary air intake faces. Would put it inside the tent but I don't think the zipper is going to stand for being opened and closed twice a day for very long.
 
We'll see where this gets the humidity; I still think this is the primary reason as to why the flowers are self-terminating. It might be nutrients in hydro but previous years' attempts have been in soil and the same thing happened. These plants like it wet, yes?? Everyone I know who has grown chili plants in summer in a greenhouse outdoors have had a gazillion fruits develop so humidity has to be the thing, if they can produce plants at a minimum temp of 23C (the tent is between 23C and 27C).
 
The leaves of the transplants are a little yellow..no clear trend yet. Both look a bit saggy today as I week-watered them yesterday and they always behave like that.
 
The sole surviving Purple Cayenne is taking to the soil well I think. The two Royal Black seedlings seem to be doing ok in the little greenhouse inside the tent.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

 

[chelicerae]

Hello!
 
The humidifer has been set to 60% and has run for a week now, with the possible exception of two half days when I came home from work and found it set to 40%, strongly suspect certain paws had been stepping on the device.
 
The rh inside the tent (I measure about 15cm from its bottom) has been between 50 and 60%.
 
Plants are looking good from as far as I can tell. The dead flowers thing may need patience, if flowers will develop in dry climate but be "dead" from the start, as indicated in the article I linked to earlier. Do you think flowers can develop in dry conditions, head for an early grave but change their mind if the humidity (or other limiting factor) decreases?
 
It sure feels like an iron curtain however.  I control nutrients, the temp and PH of the water, lighting, temp, rh, and I get the same thing as with smaller plants in soil by the window during winter.
 
--
Some words of encouragement would be appreciated.. if you think there's any hope for chilis here. I can of course try tomatoes or something. Should I go back to using the LED lights? If the HPS makes things too dry I mean.
I put a towel between two buckets of water as seen in one of the photos, in an effort to raise humidity. Anything else?